Prva čezmejna prestolnica kulture

V novi epizodi vladnega podkasta GOVSI predstavljamo evropsko prestolnico kulture 2025, Novo Gorico, ki je k sodelovanju povabila čezmejno Gorico. Z direktorico GO! 2025, gospo Mijo Lorbek, in programskim direktorjem, dr. Stojanom Pelkom, se je pogovarjala mag. Polona Prešeren. 

Na slovenski kulturni praznik, 8. februarja, bosta Nova Gorica in Gorica z umetniškim spektaklom, ki bo vrhunec celodnevnega dogajanja, začeli pripovedovati zgodbo 'Gremo čezmejno'/Go Borderless.  

S sogovornikoma smo se pogovarjali o prehojeni poti Nove Gorice, ki se je začela leta 2016 začela z idejo, ki sta jo podala Neda Rusjan Bric, danes režiserka otvoritvene slovesnosti, in takratni župan Nove Gorice, Matej Arčon, danes minister. Predlagala sta, da bi bila slovenska prestolnica kulture malce drugačna, in sicer da bi povedala zgodbo čezmejnosti, ki je v tem prostoru tlela že nekaj časa. 

Čezmejnost je za ta prostor avtentična in izhaja iz zgodovine. Da bi jo osvetlili, je slovenska Nova Gorica k skupni kandidaturi povabilo italijansko Gorico, kar se je izkazalo za zmagovalno kombinacijo. Projekt predstavlja velik korak na poti uresničitve ambicioznega cilja, da mesti in družbi premagata fizične in mentalne meje. 

Vabljeni k poslušanju na vaši priljubljeni platformi in ogledu! 

[ENGLISH VERSION]

First cross-border capital of culture 

In the latest episode of the government podcast GOVSI, we present the European Capital of Culture 2025, Nova Gorica, which has invited the cross-border city of Gorizia to cooperate. Polona Prešeren spoke with the director of GO! 2025, Ms. Mija Lorbek, and the program director, Dr. Stojan Pelko. 

On Slovenian Cultural Holyday, February 8, Nova Gorica and Gorizia will launch the story "Go Cross-Border" with an artistic spectacle – the highlight of a full day of events. 

We discussed with our guests the journey of Nova Gorica, which began in 2016 with an idea proposed by Neda Rusjan Bric, now the director of the opening ceremony, and Matej Arčon, then the mayor of Nova Gorica and now a minister. They suggested that Slovenia’s Capital of Culture should be something different – a reflection of cross-border identity, which had long been present in this space. 

Cross-border cooperation is authentic to this region and rooted in its history. To highlight this, Nova Gorica invited the Italian city of Gorizia to join in a shared bid, which proved to be a winning combination. The European Capital of Culture project therefore is a major step toward achieving an ambitious goal: overcoming physical and mental boundaries between the two cities and two communities. 

Tune in on your favourite platform to listen or watch and enjoy the experience! 

Transcript

Vladni podkast GOVSI. 

Voditeljica Polona Prešeren: Spoštovane gledalke in gledalci, poslušalke in poslušalci, dobrodošli v 18. in drugem letošnjem podkastu GOVSI, ki nastaja v produkciji Urada vlade za komuniciranje. Z vami sem Polona Prešeren in danes se bomo pogovarjali o Evropski prestolnici kulture. Zakaj? 8. februarja, na slovenski kulturni praznik, bosta namreč Gorica in Nova Gorica tudi uradno, z veliko otvoritveno slovesnostjo, prevzeli naziv Evropska prestolnica kulture. To bo prvič, da bo tovrstni projekt povezal dve mesti iz dveh držav, povezuje pa ju tudi slogan Gremo brezmejno oziroma ”Go borderless”, ki ni naključen. Več o tem in o sami Evropski prestolnici kulture pa bosta spregovorila naša gosta v studiu. Z nami sta gospa Mija Lorbek, direktorica Zavoda GO!2025, in dr. Stojan Pelko, programski direktor Evropske prestolnice kulture. Dobrodošla. 

Stojan Pelko: Hvala. 

Voditeljica: 8. februar se hitro bliža. Kakšni so sedaj vajini dnevi?

Mija Lorbek: Ja, samo še nekaj dni oziroma ur nas loči do tistega velikega dneva, ko bomo pravzaprav v enem dnevu pokazali celotno zgodbo našega sodelovanja. In dnevi so polni pričakovanja in neke prijetne utrujenosti.

Pelko: Ja, jaz mislim, da so zdaj končno spregovorili naši programski projektni partnerji. Mi smo dejansko kar nekaj časa morali predstavljati program sami zato, ker je po tihem nastajal v miru, zdaj tam nekje od konca lanskega leta pa dejansko projektni partnerji govorijo o vsebinah in to je čisto nekaj drugega, ko gledališki režiser, fotografinja, igralec pove, kaj je par let delal, da bo zdaj lahko pokazal. Zato se mi zdi, da tudi napetost raste. In tako kot je direktorica povedala, otvoritvena slovesnost bo ene vrste napovednik. Režiserka Neda Rusjan Bric, tudi ena od ključnih avtoric same ideje za Evropsko prestolnico kulture, je zasnovala to otvoritveno slovesnost kot ene vrste napovednik najboljšega, kar pride, tako da tisti, ki bo 8. februarja, bo dobil kar nekaj razlogov, da se potem ponovno vrne v letu 2025 v Novo Gorico in Gorico.

Voditeljica: Ampak začnimo sedaj malo bolj na začetku. Kaj pravzaprav Evropska prestolnica kulture pomeni za neko mesto? Vsako leto sta dve evropski mesti deležni tega naziva. Nam lahko mogoče za začetek razložite, kaj to je, ker gre za projekt dejansko, ki je veliko bolj interdisciplinaren, kot se zdi na prvi pogled.

Pelko: Jaz bom šel malo nazaj v zgodovino, če lahko, zato ker je letos 40 let te pobude. In ko ste rekli, da je to prvič, da je čezmejno, se vidi, kako v bistvu inovativna je bila ta zgodba Nove Gorice. Ampak čisto na začetku in ne smemo pozabiti, to je bila ideja tedanje grške ministrice za kulturo Meline Merkuri, ki je dobila prvega sogovornika v francoskem ministru za kulturo Jacku Langu. Onadva sta bila na nek način botra te zgodbe in ne po naključju. Ravno zaradi Meline Merkuri so bile prva prestolnica Atene in tistih prvih deset, 15 let je bila po ena in to so bila velika mesta, kjer je kultura, bi rekel, bila samoumevna. Firence, Atene, taka mesta. Potem pa postopoma in predvsem se je premik zgodil z velikim pokom, med katerim je tudi Slovenija vstopila noter. Takrat pa kar naenkrat ne bi več prišli na vrsto vsakih 23, 25, 27 let, sta začeli po dve prestolnici biti skupaj, potem so pa bili, toliko je bila Evropska komisija korektna, da je celo kandidatkam državam odprla možnost, in zato je bil lahko Novi Sad iz Srbije. Zato bo čez nekaj let Skopje iz Severne Makedonije. To pojasnjuje, zakaj imate kakšno leto dve, kakšno tri, potem pa za povrh še covid premeša stvari in so nekateri potem kasneje prišli na vrsto. Danes se mi zdi, da slovenska javnost že zelo dobro ve ne samo, da bomo skupaj s Chemnitzem, ampak tudi poznajo, recimo lanske, kjer so bile pa tri, je bil Bodo na Norveškem, je bil Bad Ischl v naši sosednji Avstriji in je bil Tartu v Estoniji. Odgovor na vaše vprašanje je pa to, da to še zdaleč ni samo kulturna zgodba, ampak se v bistvu tudi na goriškem in novogoriškem primeru vidi, ko recimo župana govorita o investicijah, praktično podeseterita ta sredstva, ki so bila prvotno namenjena za sam program in to je v bistvu se pokazalo, da je evropska prestolnica neke vrste mašina, ki omogoča lokalni oblasti, pa tudi državi, v tem primeru dvema državama, da investirata, ker verjameta v kulturo. Tako da, če boste šli danes ljudi vprašat v Novi Gorici, Gorici, se prestolnica vidi tudi tam, kjer ne bi pričakovali, pri tem, da se tiri premikajo, pri tem, da se avtobusne linije drugače organizirajo, tako da so tudi stranski učinki.

Voditeljica: Zdaj tudi sama priprava programske knjige je bila kar precej zahtevna in priprava kandidature. Ste se mogoče kaj pri pripravi kandidature morda tudi obrnili na izkušnje Maribora, ki je bil Evropska prestolnica kulture leta 2012? In mogoče še to, s čim ste prepričali dejansko potem komisijo, da je izbrala ravno Novo Gorico oziroma še Gorico?

Lorbek: Tako, pri tem vprašanju se vrnemo pravzaprav v leto 2016, ko sta idejna vodja in sedaj tudi režiserka otvoritvene slovesnosti Neda Rusjan Bric in takratni župan Matej Arčon, danes minister, prišla z idejo, da bi bila naša prestolnica kulture malce drugačna, in sicer da bi povzela zgodbo, ki je že tlela pod površino. Torej, ta čezmejnost je avtentična, prihaja s tega prostora, prihaja iz zgodovine, da bi osvetlila in da bi slovensko mesto Nova Gorica k tej skupni kandidaturi povabilo italijansko mesto Gorica. To se je izkazalo kot zmagovalna kombinacija in pravzaprav je že ves čas bazirana na tem, kar je prostor imel. Številna društva so sodelovala čezmejno. Gospodarska izmenjava je že potekala, vendar pa je ta naziv, ko je bil pridobljen, dodal neko dodatno vrednost, dodatno osvetlil to zgodbo in ves čas je mislil na prihodnost, torej na ta »legacy«, na ta dolgoročni učinek, kaj bo mestoma skupaj ostalo tudi za naprej, pa celotni Sloveniji, ki ima seveda dober primer zglednega sodelovanja na meji, ki je morda prej razdruževala, sedaj pa narode združuje.

Voditeljica: Ja.

Pelko: Samo za trenutek. Z Mariborom je nekaj, kar se mi zdi važno povedati, ker dejansko to je bila prva slovenska prestolnica. Mi smo zdaj druga, ampak vse aktualne oziroma vse dosedanje prestolnice in nekatere prihodnje združuje tako imenovana družina EPK-jev. In tukaj je forum, kjer se izkušnje izmenjujejo. In moram reči, ker takrat smo bili še na ministrstvu za kulturo, ko je bil Maribor, da se včasih rezultati nečesa šele zelo dolgoročno pokažejo in si upam trditi, pa to je proti običajnemu diskurzu v Sloveniji, da je Maribor tudi danes, tako kot je v bistvu uspešen v privabljanju in z nacionalnim gledališčem, in z Lentom in z mnogimi drugimi stvarmi. To je ambicija. Ambicija, ki je zrasla, se je vendarle tudi takrat rodila, v drugem kontekstu, ampak včasih se dela Mariboru krivico, ko se reče, ker ni bila vsa infrastruktura zgrajena, pa ni nič ostalo. Ostali so ljudje, ostal je Vetrinjski dvor, ostali so procesi. In zato se mi zdi, da bo tudi novogoriška imela nekatere hipne rezultate, nekateri se bodo pa šele čez leta pokazali. Zato se mi zdi, da se ta stava na evropsko prestolnico res dolgoročno obnese. Tukaj je tudi ta v Gorici, Novi Gorici, daje posebno tudi simbolno vrednost ravno ta čezmejnost.

Voditeljica: Kako se to odraža v samem programu in navsezadnje tudi zdaj v vsakdanjem življenju obeh mest?

Lorbek: Ja, ta zgodba čezmejnosti oziroma zgodba, ki jo ravno evropska prestolnica kulture razvije v brezmejnost, je nekaj posebnega. Odmeva daleč kot eno pozitivno sporočilo, zato pritegne recimo morda malce več medijske pozornosti v celotni Evropi in svetu. Tako smo imeli v dobrega pol leta na obisku skoraj vse najpomembnejše mednarodne in evropske hiše, od CNN-a, Guardiana, Arte je pripravil prispevek, še prihaja. In ravno vse zanima vprašanje meje, kako lahko meja inspirira, kako lahko omejuje, kako lahko meja gradi? Ali je obljuba slogana Gremo brezmejno oz. «Go borderless« resnična? Kako prihajamo do nje in na kakšnih nivojih? Moram povedati, da je bila že od začetka mišljena v različnih pomenih, ne samo zgolj v tem prvem pomenu, na katerega se večinoma pomisli, kot meja med dvema državama, ampak je šlo vedno tudi za mejo med različnima kulturama, za mejo med različnima pristopoma, za preseganje meje v lastnem razmišljanju, za vprašanje tudi, ali je meja lahko dobra. Navsezadnje je Nova Gorica ravno nastala zaradi meje in to je izjemno dobro za nas, ki imamo radi to mesto. Pa seveda, kako lahko meja inspirira in dodaja avtentičnost.

Voditeljica: Omenili ste veliko zanimanje tujih medijev. Se pravi, je to tudi odlična priložnost za samo promocijo naše države?

Lorbek: Tako je. Evropska prestolnica kulture je seveda v prvi vrsti namenjena temu, da predstavi oziroma osvetli bogato kulturno ponudbo nekega kraja oziroma območja, pa seveda povleče vzporednice s tem, kar nas v Evropi druži. Potem pa so še tukaj vsi dolgoročni učinki, ki so predvsem razvoj kulturnega turizma, oživitev mest, poživitev infrastrukture, ki se pa merijo v tem dolgoročnem učinku, seveda, še v desetih letih naprej.

Voditeljica: Kako pa je potekalo v samem času priprav, kako je potekalo sodelovanje z italijansko stranjo? Vaš partner je deželna vlada Furlanije - Julijske krajine. Na slovenski strani je partner Vlada Republike Slovenije. Kako je to potekalo? Kakšno je sodelovanje danes?

Lorbek: Ja, gre za izjemno kompleksno organizacijo. Zelo zanimivo. Tudi tukaj orjemo ledino, saj sodelujeta dve mesti, torej dve občini, dve organizaciji, potem dve vladi, pa seveda še regijska vlada na italijanski strani. Vsak doda nek košček k tej celotni zgodbi. Tudi na infrastrukturnem področju je zaradi tega bolj bogato. Je pa seveda kompleksno. Sodelovati je vedno seveda težje kot nekaj delati sam, ampak tukaj imamo zelo lep pregovor. Sami morda hitreje prispemo na cilj, vendar skupaj prispemo veliko dlje in takšen je tudi primer Evropske prestolnice kulture Nova Gorica, Gorica.

Pelko: In ker gre za vladni portal, je treba poudariti, Slovenija je bila tokrat na vrsti, se pravi leta 2025 je Slovenija dobila evropsko prestolnico kulture. Italija je nedolgo nazaj imela Matero, se pravi ta gesta, prva gesta roke čez mejo je bila v bistvu slovenska in je zelo važno. Vsakič znova spomnimo, da vendarle tudi ne bi bilo treba tega narediti. Ampak ravno zato, ker je bilo to storjeno, je prvič Nova Gorica dobila argument več za zmago v Sloveniji. In potem se pa zgodi tudi to, kar ste rekli, ker Slovenija nima regionalnih enot, se v bistvu kot prva sogovornika poleg obeh mest, ki sta vendarle ključni, se potem zgodita regija Furlanija - Julijska krajina in Republika Slovenija. In na srečo ti dve entiteti sta že od prej, tako kot sta obe mesti, že prej tesno sodelovali. Ti dve entiteti sta imeli delovna omizja, kjer še danes nekatere stvari, ki se jih morda ne da rešiti na lokalni ravni, se tako rešuje in si upam reči, da če bi morali vse reševati med Ljubljano in Rimom, bi včasih bilo preprosto predolgo in predaleč. In ta bližina, tudi po obsegu, po številu prebivalcev sta si na nek način Furlanija - Julijska krajina in Slovenija res sosedi in se je izkazalo, da kadar so bili kakšni izzivi ali pa preizkušnje na lokalni ravni pretežki finančno ali pa tudi včasih s stališča neke progresivnosti, jih je bilo včasih treba dvigniti na nivo Vidma in Trsta. In danes, recimo, ko smo se pred kratkim vrnili iz Rima s predstavitve tudi za italijansko javnost, se je izkazalo, da je ta program, o katerem smo začeli govoriti, zrasel v par letih z dvema močnima dodatnima impulzoma Furlanije - Julijske krajine, ki je nekatere projekte prepoznala kot strateško pomembne in jih je dejansko samostojno financirala in smo jih vključili v uradni program. In Italija in Slovenija skupaj sta v programu Interreg našli praktično deset milijonov za tako imenovani sklad malih projektov, skozi katero je pa malo lokalno sodelovanje zraslo, tako da danes, ko smo dali v tisk programsko knjigo, se dejansko vidi, da je prijavna knjiga zrasla prvič za občutne zneske, ampak drugič pa tudi po ambiciji. Tako, da bi si ljudje lažje predstavljali, najprej sta dve mesti, poskusite delati somestje, potem sta regija in Slovenija zastavili vse skupaj. Častna pokrovitelja obeh sta predsednica in predsednik republike, obeh republik, in to je nekaj, kar vam da po moje resnične dimenzije tega. Naš glavni financer je Ministrstvo za kulturo Republike Slovenije. Njemu smo na nek način dolžni nekatere temeljne zaveze, tako glede spoštovanja jezika kot skrbi za manjšino na drugi strani, kar pa potem v vladni strukturi še posebej naredi na nek način domače v tej zgodbi Urad za zamejce, za Slovence v zamejstvu in po svetu.

Voditeljica: Uvodoma smo že malo spregovorili o tej otvoritveni slovesnosti. To bo en tak, mogoče celo eden od vrhuncev tega dogajanja v okviru Evropske prestolnice kulture. Zdaj, slovesnost se bo odvila 8. februarja v obeh Goricah. Izbor datuma seveda sovpada, ne naključno, s slovenskim kulturnim praznikom, ki na ta način tudi postaja evropski kulturni praznik. Kaj lahko pričakujemo?

Pelko: Je naključje pa ni naključje. Vse otvoritve niso nikoli takoj po novem letu, ampak so nekje konec januarja, začetek februarja in so praviloma ob sobotah, zato da lahko preprosto iz cele Evrope ljudje pridejo. Da je pa to v našem primeru sovpadlo z 8. februarjem, je velika sreča, ker je točno to, kar ste rekli, Slovenija je ena redkih držav v Evropi, ki ima za kulturo svoj nacionalni praznik. In tega smo naredili za evropskega.

Lorbek: Tako je. V letošnjem letu bo pa prav poseben, saj bo v enem dnevu nekako strnjeno povedal to zgodbo dveh mest v dveh državah, ki sta se odločili za skupno pot, za skupni naziv Evropske prestolnice kulture. Pravzaprav bo od jutra do večera povedal to našo zgodbo, zgodbo o zaupanju, ko smo si čezmejno podali roko in se podali, pravzaprav nekam, česar še nihče ni naredil. In tako je tudi z otvoritvijo, kjer bomo to prikazali skozi različne umetniške, kulturne in spremljevalne dogodke, tako da se otvoritev dogaja kar na petih prizoriščih, glavnih trgih obeh mest, torej dveh italijanskih, dveh slovenskih in enem skupnem, evropskem. Ta del bo posebej simbolen in zato se bo na Trgu Evrope oziroma Piazzi Transalpini odvijala tudi uradna slovesnost, kjer nas bosta nagovorila oba predsednika, italijanski in slovenska predsednica. Ob 16. uri pa sledi umetniški spektakel na travniku pred občinsko palačo v Novi Gorici, kjer bomo pokazali vso zgodbo, od problematične, mogoče še danes različno interpretirane zgodovine, do danes in do obljube skupne prihodnosti oziroma razvoja skupne prihodnosti, ki se začenja z letom 2025 in bo v umetniškem spektaklu predstavljeno simbolno od začetka do konca. Tudi v umetniškem spektaklu se ne bomo omejevali samo na tisti klasični pomen kulture, kot je običajno razumljen, ampak seveda tudi tukaj gre za «borderless« kulturo, saj kultura široko odpira vrata tudi drugim področjem, kot je recimo šport, pa kulinarika. Imeli bomo tudi brezmejne okuse in pa turistične in naravne znamenitosti, s katerimi je naše brezmejno območje kar posebej obdarjeno.

Voditeljica: Zdaj v samem programu zasledimo nekako štiri sklope. Se motim?

Pelko: Ne, pravilno.

Voditeljica: Slišali smo tudi veliko nekih omemb zvenečih imen, ki bodo prišla v Slovenijo ravno zaradi Evropske prestolnice kulture. Nam lahko kaj več zaupate?

Pelko: Naša poanta je, da ni treba, da pridejo zveneča, ker so tukaj že mnoga postala zveneča in nekateri od njih so se morali zato vrniti domov. In dejansko, če bi par figur potegnil ven in na nekatere historične figure stavimo, za katere hočemo dati vedeti, da so od tod in da so že pustile sled v evropski zgodovini. Zoran Mušič, italijanski psihiater Franco Basaglia, arhitekt Edvard Ravnikar s tem, kar je naredil za Novo Gorico. Ampak na nek način smo enako ponosni na imena, kot so Tomi Janežič, Marko Peljhan, Gregor Božič, Aleksander Gadžijev, ki so vsi ta hip evropsko, če ne svetovno relevantni, ampak so si vzeli v svojih karierah in letih zdaj čas, recimo Tomi Janežič leto, dve, še celo več, Marko Peljhan praktično se je vrnil iz Kalifornije zaradi tega, da za Evropsko prestolnico kulture in z njo ustvarijo nekaj posebnega. Moram ga citirati, ker je bil tako, vsem nam je v programskem oddelku ostalo v spominu, ko je Tomi Janežič lansiral svojo prvo predstavo od dvanajstih, ki jih bo letos delal, ki je za enega gledalca. Vi pridete v lobi SNG Nova Gorica gledališča in se usedete v prikolico in izkusite predstavo za enega in bo trajala skozi celo leto. Rekel je, ne samo, da je evropska prestolnica moj, se pravi njegov projekt, naredila za možen, ampak tudi za smiseln, ker edino v Novo Gorico od vseh mest na svetu sem se lahko vrnil kot tam, kjer sem preživel prvih 12 let življenja in iz tega delam predstavo. Se pravi, morate razumeti, dostikrat v naših projektih bo prišlo do tega stika popolne intimnosti, nekih zelo Amarkord, fellinijevskih spominov, ampak po drugi strani tega, da je evropska prestolnica kulture proces, ki artistom ali pa ustvarjalcem ponuja dve, tri leta razvoja, kar je prestiž, luksuz, ki si ga je včasih težko privoščiti. Tudi zaradi tega so pričakovanja višja, so standardi višji, je tudi nestrpnost včasih višja. Mi smo zelo pogosto slišali, kje pa ste, zakaj vas pa še ni? Zato, ker delajo, premiera bo pa od 8. februarja naprej. Ampak odgovor na vaše vprašanje. Štirje osnovni programski sklopi so in vse bolj ko smo v projekt vstopali, so se izkazali kot ena zgodba. Če čisto hitro strnem, ta regija Goriška je dala dve tako hudi svetovni vojni skozi, da si upa govoriti o vojni in miru, o obojem, zakaj pride do vojne in kako je treba delati za mir. Po tem, ko enkrat gre vojna mimo, se postavlja vprašanje, kako se nekaj novega sploh ustvari. Ampak to lahko vprašate politika, lahko vprašate lokalnega župana, lahko vprašate umetnika. To je druga velika tema. Ko pa imaš enkrat mejo, pa lokalni ljudje povedo, da so ves čas nekaj tihotapili. Enkrat meso, enkrat bencin, enkrat ideje, enkrat VHS in iz tega smo naredili celo zgodbo. Ne eno, ampak mnoge. Potem je pa ta četrta razsežnost, o kateri ves čas govorimo. Vse druge meje morda lahko, ampak te meje, igre z naravo, se pa ne smemo hecati, zato ker lahko uničimo prihodnost. In to je ta naša zelo zelena, trajnostna veja. In zdaj se nam zdi, upam si reči po tem, ko zdaj dva meseca hodimo okrog po Evropi, predstavljamo to zgodbo. Ta zgodba se je prijela po interesu medijev, ampak tudi po interesu ljudi, ki rečejo, kdaj pridemo, ker nekatere zanima vprašanje vojne in miru, nekatere pa tega, koliko je Soča res zelena.

Lorbek: In še več. Ta odlični uradni program je navdihnil tudi bogat spremljevalni program, torej GO 2025 in prijatelji, ki bo pa ponudil še vse izven programa, torej številne svetovne zvezde, kot so recimo 30 Seconds To Mars, Alanis Morissette, Sting in druge. Že na otvoritvi bomo lahko slišali Massive Attack.

Voditeljica: Kakšen pa je mogoče odziv lokalnega prebivalstva z obeh strani meje na samo Evropsko prestolnico kulture? Kako oni gledajo na to? Ker kar smo slišali do zdaj, bo to tudi na neki način precej vplivalo na to življenje lokalne skupnosti.

Lorbek: Res je, že danes lahko rečemo, da Evropska prestolnica kulture pozitivno vpliva na razvoj identitete tega našega unikatnega brezmejnega območja, saj ni skorajda več dogodka, ki ne bi rekel, da smo brezmejni. Imamo kolesarsko brezmejno tekmo, košarkarsko, koncerte. Tako da pomembno oblikuje identiteto. Moramo vedeti, da v našem prostoru je namreč lokalnih skupnosti več. Očitno, seveda, slovenska in italijanska, potem imamo manjšine, pa še številne druge identitete, ki so tam ostale zaradi pestre zgodovine in meje, ki se je stalno spreminjala, pojavljala in izginjala, tako da je zelo pomemben element razvoja identitete in zelo pomemben faktor tudi grajenja novih prostorov, druženja. Dostikrat, ko govorimo o 200 milijonih investicij slovenske in italijanske strani, govorimo samo o gradnji. Ne. Pomembna je tudi zaradi tega, ker je pri nas kronično primanjkovalo prostorov tako za kulturno produkcijo kot za kvalitetno druženje in to bodo sedaj prebivalci somestja, kot mu mi rečemo, Nove Gorice in Gorice, dobili tudi za naprej.

Voditeljica: Veliko smo omenjali tudi trajnost. Veliko bo novih rešitev za samo mesto, regijo zelo pomemben ste omenili, je trajnostni vidik, zeleni. Kaj lahko še posebej izpostavimo kot dediščino tega projekta?

Pelko: Tri plasti, bi rekel. Eno je to, da se v bistvu relativno malo novo gradi, ampak se obstoječe osmišljuje, nove rabe. Zato je bilo treba skladišče ob železniški postaji prenoviti, da bi lahko postalo platforma za interpretacijo zgodovine in prizorišče mnogih drugih dogajanj. Zato se bo proti koncu letošnjega leta vila Rafut, Raščakova vila v parku Rafut prenavljala. Eno je to, da imaš prostore, ki so morda bili nekateri zaprti, nedostopni ali pa celo imeli drugo namembnost, da jih prenameniš. To je ena stvar, druga. Mi dejansko imamo par projektov, kjer naše kulturne akterje morda ne bom rekel, da učimo, ampak izmenjujemo prakse, kako se same kulturne prireditve delajo z manjšo škodo za okolje. Soča je tu dobro okolje, ker je podučilo Slovenijo, da nekaterih stvari ne gre predimenzionirati, ker so nekateri koncerti ravno zaradi te lepote narave pritegnili svetovno javnost. Ko so pa zrasli čez določenih meja, so pa rekli, oprostite, zdaj se pa ne gremo več na ta način. Včasih je treba reči ne tudi razvoju na neki točki. To je ta druga razsežnost, ampak mi pa radi rečemo, da bo morda največji trajnostni učinek bo pa nakopičeno znanje, ker skozi ta leta, ob vseh problemih, ki so, so se izobrazile cele generacije kulturnih menedžerjev, vodij projektov, producentov in nekaj tega bo ostalov NGO-jih, nevladnih organizacijah, nekaj bo ostalo v javnih zavodih, nekaj se bo preselilo na univerzo, nekaj bo šlo morda druge prestolnice učit, ampak to je, tega se ne da stran in zato, ker je tako velik projekt, je v bistvu generiral zelo veliko tega znanja. To se vidi, ker si ga začenjamo med sabo izmenjevati tudi druge evropske prestolnice kulture. En od drugega se učimo. To bo po mojem največja zapuščina. Bolj kot vsak drug objekt.

Voditeljica: Sliši se kot zelo kompleksen projekt. Kakšna ekipa pa stoji za tem?

Pelko: Naj vam dam en primer. Mi smo dali prejšnji teden v tisk programsko knjigo in ko je bilo na koncu treba, se vendarle ob vseh drugih tudi zahvaliti kolegom, smo na eni strani zgostili vse, ki v zavodu, ki ga je Mestna občina Nova Gorica ustanovila za potrebe GO25, in na drugi strani v EZTS, ki je teritorialno združenje treh občin Šempeter, Nova Gorica in Gorica, ki že od prej funkcionira, ampak so naši partnerji v tej zgodbi. Ko sta ti dve strani skupaj, je bilo gor vsaj 50 imen, se pravi samo v naših dveh ustanovah se 50 ljudi zdaj intenzivno samo s tem ukvarja. Ko jim dodaš že samo v obeh občinah, pa v regiji, pa na ministrstvu in na drugih vladnih, si na sto. Ko pa šteješ v to skupino še vse naše projektne partnerje, pa prideš na več sto ljudi, tako da dejansko niso vsi v službi. Nekateri so na pogodbah, nekateri so volonterji, nekateri delajo to kot nosilni partnerji na podaljšano roko. Ampak tu gre res za stotine ljudi in to priča o težavnosti vodenja tega projekta. Tudi, zakaj so včasih finančni stroški na videz veliki. Zato, ker gre za zelo veliko količino dela iz dneva v dan.

Voditeljica: Ne moremo se pa izogniti tudi ne vprašanju potem proračuna tega projekta. Torej, kakšen proračun imate na voljo in koliko mogoče prispeva Evropska unija? Koliko posamezne vlade? Kakšen je sploh razrez?

Lorbek: Tako je. Kot smo že pogosto slišali danes, gre za izjemno kompleksen projekt in takšne so tudi finance. Uradni program, za katerega smo zadolženi v Zavodu GO!2025, ima okvirno 20 milijonov programskih sredstev. Od tukaj je večino prispevalo ministrstvo za kulturo, pa občina Nova Gorica, nekaj pa tudi Evropska unija. Potem imamo dodatno, recimo temu srečo, v našem primeru Evropske prestolnice kulture, torej sklad za male projekte GO 2025, kjer gre za sredstva Interrega spet v višini 11 milijonov, to je za projekte, ki podpirajo uradni program, pa vendar so nastali morda kasneje in govorijo druge zgodbe. Torej gre za dodatno priložnost za mogoče vse tiste, ki niso bili vključeni v prijavno knjigo. Velik del sredstev pa je namenjenih infrastrukturi. Kar 200 milijonov smo sešteli v poročilu strokovni komisiji, strokovnemu svetu, imenovanemu s strani Evropske komisije, torej na slovenski in na italijanski strani. Tukaj gre predvsem za prostore za kulturno produkcijo, ki so bili že predvideni v prijavni knjigi. Moramo povedati, da smo ena izmed najbolj uspešnih evropskih prestolnic kulture na infrastrukturnem področju, saj so poleg prenovljenih, novo razvitih z novo namembnostjo razvitih prostorov dodana tudi pomembna logistična in povezovalna infrastrukturna razvojna omrežja, kot recimo e-avtobusi, pa e-vlak, nove linije na letališčih, ki so izjemnega pomena za nekoč morda bolj odročno območje Nove Gorice in Gorice, ki je s prestolnico postalo povezljivo. Dobili smo tudi neposredni vlak iz Nove Gorice do Benetk in naprej do Rima, kar je za prebivalce izjemnega pomena. Ena izmed dodanih vrednosti tega projekta je tudi, recimo temu vzpostavitev primera dobrih praks.

Voditeljica: Zdaj mogoče je to še posebej zanimivo za mesta s podobnimi čezmejnimi priložnostmi in izzivi. Kakšno sporočilo si želite vi poslati takšnim mestom oz. kakšne izkušnje predati? In na koncu koncev, ali se vam je že kakšno mesto podobno oglasilo?

Pelko: Ja, ja. Naj začnem. Državni sekretar Marko Rusjan se je na predstavitvi v Rimu pohvalil, da bo njihovo ministrstvo povabilo, mislim, da 12 ali 13, da so potrdili 12 ali 13 ministrov za kulturo, ministric ali državnih sekretarjev oz. sekretark. Prav s to poanto, da pridejo pogledat ne samo, kako se organizira Evropska prestolnica kulture, ker imajo mnogi izkušnje, ampak kako se to zgodi, ko si na meji, ko obljubljaš, da boš praktično naredil prosto kulturno cono. Ampak to je samo ena razsežnost. Se pravi, ko se na nek način tvorci nacionalnih kulturnih politik pridejo posvetovat, zgledovat po svojih kolegih. Na ravni mest, to, kar ste rekli, se pa dejansko dogaja, je vgrajeno v sam proces. Že Nova Gorica, ki je kandidirala, se je morala z mnogimi drugimi povezati, zdaj pa to počnejo drugi z nami. Najtesneje definitivno smo povezani s Chemnitzem. To se je zelo lepo videlo tudi na otvoritvi, kjer je bila res čast izkazana Novi Gorici. Človek bi rekel, da je celo mogoče malo tako, malo nam zavidajo, bi rekel, ker je, ker je interesa toliko zaradi brezmejnosti in ker ima jug vseeno svojo specifiko, ker je lepša narava, ker je boljše. Ampak tisto, kar hočem reči, ja, recimo Skopje, ki bo, mislim, da leta 2028, je že vprašalo za izmenjavo praks. Druga mesta, ki pridejo kasneje, nekatera, ki šele kandidirajo znotraj svojih nacionalnih tekmovanj, prosijo za kljukico, da so z nami v stiku in imamo kaj deliti z njimi.

Voditeljica: Kakšno sporočilo pa si želite recimo tudi pustiti mestom, ki se bodo šele v prihodnje, kot na primer Skopje, ki se bodo šele v prihodnje pridružila tej družini evropskih prestolnic kulture?

Lorbek: Ja, pravzaprav v tem učnem procesu razvoja Evropske prestolnice kulture bi lahko sporočili prihodnjim kandidatkam in kandidatom, da se osredotočijo predvsem na dve središčni misli, ko pripravljajo svoje kandidature, in sicer avtentičnost je prva zagotovo. Naj bodo avtentični, naj poiščejo, kar kraji že imajo. Naj ne kopirajo velikih zgodb, s katerimi so uspela velika evropska mesta, glavna mesta, Pariz, ali pa celo ameriških zgodb. Naj poiščejo tisto, kar je unikatno, naj razvijejo na višjo raven, pomagajo osvetliti in pomagajo tem zgodbam, kulturnim projektom dati pozornost, daj to je tisto, kar bo ostalo tudi po prestolnici in bo ostalo še leta po tem. Drugo pa je morda to. Naj se osredotočajo na to, kar v Evropi pravzaprav imamo glede na ostali svet. In to je ta sposobnost se razumeti med seboj in kljub različnosti graditi boljšo prihodnost. Mladi to zelo dobro vedo. Že v našem primeru so ponosni na prihodnost, ki jo gradijo. Morda je to tudi sporočilo vsem tistim, ki iz Rima ali pa tudi iz Ljubljane preveč poudarjajo morda razhajanja ali pa z negativnim nagovorom nastopajo do te zgodbe. Pustite mladim novo zgodbo. Ne gre za zanikanje preteklosti ali za zanemarjanje odgovornosti. Gre za to, da se je potrebno najprej razumeti, pogovarjati, sprejeti in potem zgraditi skozi skupno prihodnost tudi razumevanje za preteklost. Torej pustimo mladim ta svet, pustimo jim «borderless« svet.

Voditeljica: Mogoče zaključimo še z enim povabilom v Novo Gorico in Gorico, ker dogajanje bo res pestro. Kje lahko naše gledalke in gledalci spremljajo kakšen program?

Pelko: Absolutno. Prvo vabilo seveda velja za jutri, za 8. februar, ampak hkrati je pa treba povedati, da so najpopolnejše informacije v zvezi s programom skozi celo leto seveda dostopne na spletni strani www.go2025.eu. Tam bodo sproti dnevno posodabljane. Ker pa vemo, da bo treba na nek način markirati tudi posamezna prizorišča, smo šli tudi v serijo tiskovin. Se pravi poleg programske knjige, ki zgosti v eni 350-stranski knjigi celoletni program, bodo izšli štirje sezonski časopisi, ki po sezonah ljudem dali vedeti, na katerih prizoriščih se kdaj kaj dogaja. To bo tudi ene vrste prepoznavni znak, da so prav prišli. Potem so pa seveda tile mesečni koledarji, ki jih bomo objavljali skozi medijske objave in ves čas bodo dostopni online. In čisto na koncu dejansko, ker se bo vedno kaj nepričakovanega zgodilo, je vedno dobro iti še na našo aplikacijo, ki bo v bistvu izpeljanka spletne strani, tako da se nam zdi, da se je cela informacijska struktura pravočasno sestavila, da nihče ne bo ostal brez informacij, kdaj se kaj dogaja.

Voditeljica: Gospa Lorbek, dr. Pelko, najlepša hvala za obisk v našem studiu in v našem podkastu. Želimo vam veliko uspeha pri izvedbi programa. Verjamemo, da bo privabil veliko ljudi in pustil trajno dediščino v regiji in v mestih. Spoštovane poslušalke in poslušalci, gledalke in gledalci, hvala za pozornost in ogled našega podkasta. Gov.si podkast lahko sicer spremljate na vseh priljubljenih aplikacijah za podkaste in YouTube kanalu Vlade Republike Slovenije, ampak ostanite še en hipec, ker sledi še video predstavitev Evropske prestolnice kulture.

[ENGLISH VERSION] 

Gov.si, the Government's Podcast

Host Polona Prešeren: Dear viewers, hello and welcome to the 18th edition, the second this year, of our GOVSI podcast, produced by the Government Communication Office. I'm Polona Prešeren and today's topic is the European Capital of Culture. Why? On February 8, Slovenia's Culture Holiday, an official opening ceremony will mark Gorizia and Nova Gorica becoming the European Capital of Culture. For the first time ever, a project of this kind will connect two cities in two countries, as will their slogan Go Borderless, which isn't coincidental. To tell us more about the Capital of Culture Project, we're joined by our guests, Mrs. Mija Lorbek, the Head of the GO! 2025 organization and Dr. Stojan Pelko, Head of Programme. Welcome.

Stojan Pelko: Thank you.

Host: February 8 is fast approaching. What do your days look like now? 

Mija Lorbek: Yes, we're just days and hours away from the big day when we'll tell the entire story of our collaboration in a single day. This period is full of expectations and a pleasant sense of exhaustion.

Pelko: I believe our project partners have finally spoken up. For a time, we had to present the program by ourselves so it could be created in peace, but since late last year, our project partners have talked about content. It's completely different when a theatre director, a photographer, or an actor tells you what he has been working on. I feel there's more tension now. As the head of GO! 2025 stated, the opening ceremony will serve as a trailer of sorts. Its director, a key initiator of the project, conceived the ceremony as a trailer for the best that is in store, so anyone who attends on February 8 will get plenty of reasons to return throughout 2025.

Host: Let's start at the beginning. What does the European Capital of Culture mean for a town? Each year, two European cities get the title. Can you start out by explaining what this project is about? It's a lot more interdisciplinary that it seems at first sight.

Pelko: I'll take a look back if I may. This year marks the 40th anniversary of the initiative. The fact that this is the first cross-border edition proves just how innovative Nova Gorica's idea was. The idea came from Greek Culture Minister Melina Mercouri, who found common ground with French Culture Minister Jack Lang. They were the initiators, and not by chance. Because of Mercouri, Athens became the first capital. For the first 10 or 15 years, there was just one capital, and they were all big cities where culture was taken for granted: Florence, Athens, and the like. A slow change happened with the Big Bang, when Slovenia became one of the new members. It would take too long for everyone to get their turn, as much as 23, 25, 27 years, so we had two capitals at the same time. The European Commission was generous enough to open the door to candidate countries, so we now have Novi Sad, Serbia, and we'll have Skopje, North Macedonia, in a few years. This explains why some years have two and some have three, and then COVID caused some delays. Now, the Slovenian public knows not just that we're sharing this with Chemnitz, but they also know last year's three cities: Bodo, Norway, Bad Ischl, Austria, and Tartu, Estonia. To answer your question, this isn't just about culture. As we can see in the case of Gorizia and Nova Gorica, when the mayors talk about investment, we see a tenfold increase in the funding originally intended for the project. This shows that the Capital of Culture is a machine that allows both local authorities and the state, or two states in this case, to make investments because they believe in culture. People in the two towns will tell you that there's evidence of the project where you wouldn't expect it; rail tracks are being moved and bus lines reorganized. We have these side effects.

Host: The preparation of the program lineup was challenging, as was the candidacy. When you were getting your candidacy together, did you turn to Maribor, the 2012 Capital of Culture, for advice? And how did you convince the selection committee to pick Gorica and then Gorizia?

Lorbek: This question takes us back to 2016, when the initiator and now the director of the opening ceremony, Neda Rusjan Bric, and then-Mayor Matej Arčon, now a minister, came up with an idea that our Capital of Culture would be a bit different and would be based on an idea that was percolating beneath the surface. Its trans-border nature is authentic; it comes from this area and from history, so to highlight its importance, the Slovenian town of Nova Gorica invited Italy's Gorizia to take part. This turned out to be a winning combination, one based on what had already existed in the area. Many associations had worked across the border and there was plenty of trade, but the title, when it was awarded, was icing on the cake. It spotlighted this story and was always oriented towards the project's legacy and the long-term effect. What will the towns and Slovenia get from it? The country has a good example of working across the border, which once separated nations, but now unites them.

Host: Yes...

Pelko: I'd just like to say something about Maribor, Slovenia's first Capital of Culture. We're now the second. However, all the previous capitals and some of the forthcoming ones are a part of the so-called ECC Family, a forum where they exchange their experiences. I was at the ministry when Maribor was the capital, and I know that some effects are only obvious in the long term. Contrary to the common assumptions in Slovenia, Maribor is a successful destination in part because of its theatre, the Lent Festival, and many other things. It's an ambition, which emerged at the time in a different context. Sometimes people are unfair to Maribor because people say that nothing was left behind. People were left behind, as was Vetrinjski Dvor, and some processes. Nova Gorica will also see short-term results, but some will only become apparent years later, so the decision to become a European Capital of Culture will pay off in the long run.

Host: The event in Gorizia and Nova Gorica also has a symbolic meaning, namely its borderlessness. How is this reflected in the official program and the everyday life of both towns?

Lorbek: The story of cross-border cooperation, which the European Capital of Culture project is transforming into borderlessness, is something special. It sends a positive message far and wide with media attention from around Europe and the world. In just over six months, we've had visits from almost all the most important international and European media companies, such as CNN, The Guardian, Arte prepared a report, and ORF is still coming. They're all interested in the question of borders: how they can inspire, restrict, construct, and whether the promise of the slogan Go Borderless is true. How can we reach it and on what levels? From the very start, it has had several meanings, not just in the initial sense of the border between two countries, but also as a border between two cultures and two approaches, as well as the desire to go beyond borders in our mindsets, and the question whether borders can be good. After all, Nova Gorica formed because of the border, which is incredibly good for those of us who love that city. And, of course, how a border can inspire and add authenticity.

Host: You mentioned great interest by foreign media. So, this is also an opportunity for our country to promote itself, no?

Lorbek: Yes. The European Capital of Culture is primarily intended to present or highlight the rich culture of a city or region and to draw parallels between what unites us in Europe. Then there are all the long-term effects, which are mainly the development of cultural tourism, and a revival of cities and infrastructure, which are measured in long-term effects even ten or more years on.

Host: How did the cooperation with the Italian side go during the preparations? Your partner is the Friuli-Venezia Giulia regional government, while here it's the government of the Republic of Slovenia. How did that go? What is the cooperation like today?

Lorbek: It is an incredibly complex organisation. Interestingly, we are breaking new ground here as well, as we have two cities cooperating, two municipalities, two organisations, two governments and a regional government on the Italian side. Each one is contributing a piece to this whole story, which makes the infrastructure richer, but it is complex as well. It is always harder to collaborate than to work alone. There is a very nice saying. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. This also applies to the European Capital of Culture Nova Gorica - Gorizia.

Pelko: I must emphasise that it was Slovenia's turn this year. Slovenia got the 2025 European Capital of Culture. Italy recently had Matera. The first cross-border gesture came from Slovenia. We always say that we didn't have to do that, but because it was done Nova Gorica gained a point toward being awarded this. Slovenia does not have regional units, so, beyond the two cities, which are crucial, the first point of contact is between the Friuli-Venezia Giulia region and the Republic of Slovenia. These two entities have, like the cities, been cooperating closely. They still have roundtables where they solve things that cannot be solved at the local level. If we had to deal with everything between Ljubljana and Rome, it can be too far apart and take too long, while the Friuli region and Slovenia are much closer together in terms of size and population. We learned that when some challenges at the local level were too difficult, financially or in terms of progressiveness, they had to be elevated to the level of Udine and Trieste. We recently held a presentation for the Italian public in Rome, where it turned out that this programme had grown in a few years with two strong additional impulses. The Friuli region recognised some projects as strategically important and financed them, so we incorporated them in the programme. Within the Interreg programme, Italy and Slovenia have found 10 million euros for a number of small projects that have produced small, local collaborations. We just put the programme book to print and we can see that the bid book has grown not just in considerable amounts, but also in ambition. So, we have two cities trying to make a conurbation and the region and Slovenia setting it all up, while the honorary sponsors are the presidents of both republics. I think that that really puts the whole thing in perspective. Our main funder is the Ministry of Culture. We have some fundamental obligations to it, like respecting the language and caring for the minority, which, within the governmental structure, is cared for by the Government Office for Slovenians Abroad.

Host: We have already briefly mentioned the opening ceremony, which may be one of the highlights of this European Capital of Culture programme. The ceremony will take place on 8 February in both Gorizias. The choice of date is, of course, not random, as it coincides with Slovenia’s Cultural Holiday, which is thus also becoming a European cultural holiday. What can we expect?

Pelko: It both is and isn’t a coincidence. After the New Year, openings are held at the end of January, beginning of February, typically on Saturdays so people from across Europe can attend. This one coinciding with 8 February is very fortuitus, as Slovenia is one of the few European countries with a national holiday dedicated to culture, and we have made it European.

Lorbek: This year it will be truly special, as it will encapsulate, in a single day, the story of two cities in two countries that have jointly embraced the title of European Capital of Culture. From morning until evening, it will tell our story of trust, of reaching across borders to join hands in an unprecedented endeavour. The opening will reflect this through various artistic, cultural, and accompanying events. The ceremony will take place across five main squares, two in Italy, two in Slovenia, and one shared European square. This one will be particularly symbolic, as the official ceremony will be held at the Europe Square or Piazza della Transalpina, with an address by both the President of Italy and the President of Slovenia. At 4:00 p.m., an artistic spectacle will take place in front of the municipal palace in Nova Gorica, portraying the journey from the complex and, at times, still differently interpreted history, to the present and the promise of developing a shared future. This future begins in 2025 and will be symbolically represented in the artistic performance, spanning from beginning to end. The artistic spectacle will not be confined to the traditional understanding of culture but will embrace a borderless culture, as culture opens doors to other fields, such as sports and gastronomy. Visitors will experience borderless dishes as well as the tourist and natural attractions that make this borderless region exceptional.

Host: The programme is structured into four sections, right?

Pelko: Yes.

Host: We have also heard numerous mentions of prominent names coming to Slovenia specifically for the European Capital of Culture. Could you share more details?

Pelko: Our point is that prominent names don't have to come here, as many have already gained recognition here, and some have even had to return home because of it. We want to highlight some historical figures who came from this region and have left their mark on European history. Zoran Mušič, the Italian psychiatrist Franco Basaglia, the architect Edvard Ravnikar for his contributions to Nova Gorica. But we are equally proud of names like Tomi Janežič, Marko Peljhan, Gregor Božič, and Aleksander Gadžijev, who are currently relevant on a European, if not global, scale. They have taken time out of their careers, Tomi Janežič took more than two, and Marko Peljhan returned from California for this, to create something special for the European Capital of Culture. I must quote Tomi Janežič, as his words left an impression on us all when he launched the first of his 12 performances this year, designed for a single viewer. You sit in a trailer in the lobby of the Nova Gorica SNG Theatre and experience a one-on-one performance that will unfold throughout the year. He said: "The European Capital of Culture made my project possible, and meaningful as well, as Nova Gorica is the only city in the world where I could come back to where I spent the first 12 years of my life and create a performance out of that." Quite often in our projects there's this contact of complete intimacy of some very Amarcord, Felliniesque memories. But on the other hand, the European Capital of Culture is a process that offers artists or creators two, three years of development, which is a luxury that is sometimes difficult to afford. That's also why the expectations and standards are higher, and there's impatience. People kept asking why they're not ready yet. Because they're working, the premiere will be in February. But to answer your question. There are four basic programmes, and the more and more we got into the project, they turned out to be one story. To summarise very quickly, the Gorizia region has been through two world wars so bad that it dares to talk about both war and peace, why does war happen and how should we work for peace. Once the war is over, the question is how to create something new. You can ask a politician, a local mayor, or an artist. That's another big topic. But once you have a border, the locals will tell you there's always smuggling. They used to smuggle meat, petrol, ideas, VHS tapes... We made a whole story about that. Not one, but many. Then there's this fourth dimension that we're talking about. All the other boundaries maybe, but the boundary of playing with nature is not to be trifled with, because we can destroy the future. That's the sustainable part. I dare say, after going around Europe presenting this story for two months, it has caught the interest of the media, but also the people, because some of them are interested in the issue of war and peace, and some. how green Soča really is.

Lorbek: This excellent official programme has also inspired a rich accompanying programme, GO! 2025 & Friends, which will offer everything outside the programme, i.e. many world stars, such as 30 Seconds to Mars, Massive Attack, Alanis Morissette, Sting and others. Already at the opening, we will be able to hear Portishead and Massive Attack live.

Host: What is the reaction of the local population on both sides of the border to the European Capital of Culture? How do they see it? Because what we've heard so far will also have a considerable impact on the life of the local community.

Lorbek: We can already say that the European Capital of Culture has a positive impact on the development of the identity of this unique borderless area of ours. Almost all of the events emphasise this borderlessness. We have a borderless cycling event, basketball match, concerts. So it shapes the identity in an important way. We have to remember that in our area there are several local communities. Obviously Slovenian and Italian. Then we have minorities, and many other identities that have remained there because of a varied history and a border that has constantly changed, appeared and disappeared, so the development of identity is a very, very important element, and also a very important factor in the construction of new spaces for socialising. Often, when we talk about the €200 million investment on the Slovenian and Italian side, we're only talking about construction. No. It's also important because we've had a chronic shortage of spaces for cultural production and for quality socialising, and that's what the residents of the Nova Gorica and Gorizia conurbation will gain for the future.

Host: We've also talked a lot about sustainability. There will be a lot of new solutions for the whole region. You've said the sustainability aspect is very important. What can we highlight in particular as a legacy of this project?

Pelko: Three layers, I would say. Relatively few new buildings are being built, as existing ones are being transformed for new uses. The warehouse next to the railway station had to be renovated so that it could become a platform for the interpretation of history and a venue for many other events. Towards the end of this year, Villa Lasciac in Rafut Park will be renovated for new uses. We've changed the use of the spaces, which may have been closed, inaccessible, or used for other purposes. That's one thing. Another one is that we have a couple of projects where we exchange practices with our cultural actors on how to organise cultural events with less damage to the environment. Soča has taught Slovenia that some things shouldn't be oversized, some concerts have attracted a worldwide public precisely because of this beauty of nature. But when they grew beyond certain limits, they changed their ways. Sometimes you have to say no, even to development. But we like to say that perhaps the biggest sustainable impact will be the knowledge that we've accumulated over the years. All the problems have educated whole generations of cultural managers, project managers, producers, and some of them will stay in the NGOs, some will stay in public institutions, some will move to university, some might teach in other capitals, but that's not negligible. Such a big project has generated a lot of knowledge. We're starting to share it with other European Capitals of Culture. We're learning from each other. That will be the greatest legacy. More than any building.

Host: It sounds like a very complex project. What kind of team is behind it?

Pelko: Let me give you an example. The programme book went into print last week, and when it was time to thank our colleagues along with everyone else, a page was dedicated to the GO! 2025 institution set up by the Municipality of Nova Gorica, and another page to the territorial association of the three municipalities of Šempeter, Nova Gorica and Gorizia, who are our partners in this. These two pages contain at least 50 names. In our two institutions alone, 50 people are working exclusively on this. With the people from the two municipalities, the region, the ministry, there's a hundred of them. But when you add all our project partners to that group, you get to several hundred people. Some are contract workers, some are volunteers, some are involved from afar. But there are hundreds of people involved, and that is a testimony to the difficulty of running this project. Why are we spending seemingly a lot of money? Because there's a very large amount of day-to-day work.

Host: We can't avoid the question of the budget for this project. What kind of budget do you have and how much is the EU contributing? How much are individual governments contributing?

Lorbek: As we've heard so often today, it's an extremely complex project and so are the finances. The official programme, which we're responsible for at GO! 2025, has an indicative programme budget of €20 million. The Ministry of Culture, the Municipality of Nova Gorica and the EU have contributed the majority of it. Then we have an additional, let's say, luck in our case of the European Capital of Culture, the GO! 2025 small projects fund, which Interreg has contributed €11 million to. For projects that support the official programme, but which may have been created later and tell a different story. So it's an additional opportunity for maybe all those who weren't included in the application book. A large part of the funding is for infrastructure. We have added up as much as €200 million in the report for the expert council appointed by the European Commission, on the Slovenian and Italian side. This is mainly about spaces for cultural production, which were already foreseen in the application book. We have to say that we're one of the most successful European Capitals of Culture in the area of infrastructure, because, in addition to the renovated, newly developed spaces with a new purpose, important logistical and connecting infrastructural development networks have also been added, such as electric buses, and an electric train, new lines to the airports, which are of paramount importance for the once perhaps more remote area of Nova Gorica and Gorizia, which has become well connected. We've also got a direct train from Nova Gorica to Venice and one to Rome, which is extremely important for our residents.

Host: One of the added values of this project is also, let's say, the establishment of good practice. Perhaps this is of particular interest to cities with similar cross-border opportunities and challenges. What kind of message or experience do you want to convey? And, did you hear from another similar town?

Pelko: Yes. Marko Rusjan has at the presentation in Rome mentioned that his Ministry will invite 12 or 13 or they have confirmed 12 Ministers of Culture or State Secretaries for them to see how to organize a European Capital of Culture, although many have this experience, but how to do it on the border. When you promise to create a free cultural zone. This is only one dimension. When creators of national cultural policies come for an advice or learn from their colleagues. At the town level this is an integral part of the process. Nova Gorica had to connect with others and now they do it with us. We have the closest relationship with Chemnitz. It was obvious at the opening, when Nova Gorica was honoured. I could say that it is a little... They envy us a little. Because there is a lot of interest and the South has its own specifics. Because the nature and food are better there. Skopje which will be in this position in the year 2028 has already asked us to exchange the praxis. The towns that are running for this position within their national competitions want to connect with us. And we have a lot to share.

Host: What kind of message do you want to leave the towns like Skopje for example, which are only planning to join this family of the European Capitals of Culture?

Lorbek: In this learning process of the European Capital of Culture we could pass the message to the future candidates to focus mainly on two key thoughts, when preparing their candidacy. One is authenticity. They should find what places already have. They shouldn't copy the big stories of the big European cities, capitals like Paris or even American stories. They should find something unique and develop it to a higher level. They should help to reveal these stories or give the cultural projects some attention, because this will stay, even many years after. The second thing is to focus on things that we have in Europe in relation to the rest of the world. It's the ability to get along and build a better future despite the differences. The young people know it well. In our case they are proud of the future they are building. Maybe this is a message to all those from Rome or Ljubljana who are emphasizing the disagreements or are telling the story with a negative speech. Leave it to the young people to have a new story. This is not about denying the past or ignoring the responsibility. The point is that we have to get along first, talk and accept. And later, through the future we can build an understanding for the past. Let's leave this world for the young ones or even better, let's leave them a borderless world.

Host: Let's finish this with an invitation to visit Gorizia and Nova Gorica. There will be a lot of events. Where can or viewers find the programme?

Pelko: Absolutely. The first invitation is for February the 8th. But the fullest information on the programme through the year are on our web site www.go2025.eu. They will be daily updated. Because we know that we have to mark certain settings we also made a series of prints. There are 300 pages of the programme and four seasonal newspapers too. People can find there what is going on season after season. This will be an identifying mark that they came to the right place. Then there are also monthly calendars that will be published in the media. They will be also available online. And at the end, because something unexpected is always bound to happen, it is always smart to double-check everything on our application. We think that this information structure is coming along on time and everybody could get the right information.

Host: Mrs. Lorbek and Dr. Pelko thank you for your visit in our podcast. We wish you a lot of success with the implementation of the programme, It will attract a lot of people and leave a lasting heritage in the region and towns. Dear listeners and viewers, thank you for your attention. You can follow GOVSI podcast on all popular applications for podcasts and on the YouTube channel of the Government of Slovenia. Stay just for a little while to see a video presentation of the European Capital of Culture.