GOVSI podkast

GOVSI Podkast: Z ministrom Logajem o spremembah v šolstvu

Urad vlade za komuniciranje

V 24. epizodi vladnega podkasta Gov.si je gostoval minister za vzgojo in izobraževanje dr. Vinko Logaj. V pogovoru s Petro Bezjak Cirman je predstavil ključne zakonodajne spremembe v šolstvu, ki jih je vlada sprejela v zadnjem letu, in izpostavil pomen javnega izobraževanja v Sloveniji. Po njegovem mnenju se pogosto premalo zavedamo prednosti, ki jih omogoča dostopno in kakovostno javno šolstvo – od vrtcev do univerz, kar je po njegovem prepričanju eden od temeljev enakih možnosti za vse otroke.

Minister je predstavil novosti, kot so spremembe financiranja zasebnih vrtcev, postopno uvajanje novega predmeta informatike in digitalnih tehnologij v osnovnih šolah ter pomembno reformo sistema ocenjevanja. Dotaknila sta se tudi aktualnih tem, kot so pomanjkanje učiteljev, uporaba mobilnih telefonov v šolah in ukrepi za zagotavljanje varnega učnega okolja. Minister je izpostavil, da se s temi izzivi spoprijemajo z vrsto ukrepov – od kadrovskih prilagoditev do štipendij in spodbud za mlade učitelje.

Ob koncu šolskega leta je minister Logaj vsem učencem in učiteljem zaželel miren zaključek ter prijetne in zaslužene počitnice. Ob tem je izpostavil pomen sodelovanja šole, staršev in širše skupnosti pri vzgoji in izobraževanju mladih. Celoten pogovor, ki ponuja vpogled v aktualno stanje in prihodnje načrte slovenskega šolskega sistema, si lahko ogledate ali poslušate na vseh platformah podkasta Gov.si.

[ENGLISH VERSION]

Gov.si Podcast: Minister Logaj on Reforms and the Future of Education

In the 24th episode of the Gov.si government podcast, Minister of Education Dr. Vinko Logaj joined host Petra Bezjak Cirman to discuss the latest legislative reforms in the Slovenian education system. He highlighted the value of accessible and high-quality public education, which he sees as a key foundation for ensuring equal opportunities for all children. Minister Logaj emphasized that Slovenians often take this system for granted, even though elsewhere education often comes with high financial burdens.

The episode covered various policy updates, including changes to the funding of private kindergartens, the gradual introduction of a new compulsory subject—Informatics and Digital Technologies—in primary schools, and a reformed grading and assessment system. The minister also addressed current challenges such as teacher shortages, mobile phone use in schools, and efforts to ensure a safe and inclusive learning environment. Measures such as hiring flexibility, increased scholarships, and non-profit housing for young teachers are part of the government’s strategy to attract and retain qualified staff.

As the school year comes to a close, Minister Logaj extended his best wishes to teachers and students, encouraging a joyful and stress-free end to the year and a well-deserved summer break. He underscored the importance of collaboration among schools, families, and the wider community in educating the next generation. You can watch or listen to the full episode of the Gov.si podcast on all major platforms.

 

 

Voditeljica Petra Bezjak Cirman: Spoštovane gledalke in gledalci, poslušalke in poslušalci, dobrodošli v 24. epizodi podkasta Gov.si, ki ga za vas pripravljamo na Uradu Vlade Republike Slovenije za komuniciranje. Z vami sem Petra Bezjak Cirman. Pred nami je zaključek šolskega leta. Učenci in dijaki že nestrpno pričakujejo počitnice in zaslužen oddih od učilnic. Zato v podkastu, ki ga lahko spremljate na vseh platformah, gostimo ministra za vzgojo in izobraževanje dr. Vinka Logaja. Dober dan. 

Gost dr. Vinko Logaj: Dober dan, lep pozdrav. 

Voditeljica: Minister, bili ste logičen izbor za gostovanje, saj ste v tem letu na vlado prinesli precej zakonodajnih sprememb. Govorila bova o tem, katere so ključne novosti, ki jih prinašajo novele zakonov, kako se ministrstvo sooča z izzivi, kot so pomanjkanje kadra, nasilje v šolah in digitalizacija izobraževanja ter kakšna je dolgoročna vizija slovenskega šolstva. Na začetku pa nekaj osebnega o vas. In sicer me zanima, kako se vi spominjate svojih šolskih dni. Vas je kak učitelj posebej zaznamoval? 

Gost: Ja, moram povedati, da imam tak zelo globok spomin na prvi šolski dan. Ne vem, če smem povedati, kdaj je to bilo. Leta 1967, petega septembra, ker takrat se je začelo šolsko leto petega in ne prvega septembra. Imel sem občutek, da sem stopil v gromozansko hišo z gromozanskimi prostori. Takrat ni bilo male šole. Prvič sem bil v takšnem prostoru, in to se mi je vtisnilo v spomin. Ko danes gledam to stavbo, To je bila ena majhna podružnica, se mi zdi čisto navadna, običajno velika stavba. Pa še ob sobotah smo hodili v šolo. 

Voditeljica: Torej se je šolstvo v teh letih kar spremenilo. 

Gost: Zelo.

Voditeljica: Imate bogate izkušnje in iz prve roke poznate šolski sistem. Dejansko ste šli čez vso karierno pot. Bili ste učitelj, pomočnik ravnatelja, nato ravnatelj. Sodelovali ste pri ustanavljanju Gimnazije Litija. Bili ste direktor direktorata za srednje in višje šolstvo in direktor Zavoda za šolstvo Republike Slovenije in na koncu kot pika na i minister. Kaj vas je vodilo na to poklicno pot? Zakaj prav šolstvo? 

Gost: Moram priznati, da ko sem se odločal za vpis v srednjo šolo, sem želel postati zidar. Potem so mi pa svetovali, šolska svetovalna služba. takrat je že delovala, da bi vendarle izbral kakšen drugačen poklic, pa nisem imel ravno čiste poklicne orientacije in so mi svetovali gimnazijo. Po gimnaziji sem se odločil za študij fizike, pedagoško smer, in ko so me nagovorili, da sem še med študijem začel nadomeščati kolegico, ki je prej poučevala na eni od osnovnih šol fiziko, še kot študent. Približno tako je bilo kot danes. Učiteljev, fizike in matematike je izredno primanjkovalo. Takrat sem začutil, da je verjetno to to in so me nekako pritegnili vsi izzivi, ki jih ima učitelj v razredu. Ne govorim o problemih, danes prevečkrat govorimo o problemih. Kadar to vzameš kot ene vrste poslanstvo, na drugi strani pa delaš profesionalno, potem so vse ovire izziv za drugačno delo, za drugačne pristope in za učinkovitost samega dela. 

Voditeljica: Vi ste se šolali v javnem šolstvu in nadaljevali službo v javnem šolstvu. Menite, da se v Sloveniji dovolj zavedamo pomena javnega šolstva? V tujini, na primer, že varčujejo vnaprej, zato da lahko plačujejo izobraževanje svojim otrokom. Pri nas teh težav ni niti, ko recimo naredimo fakulteto, se ne zakreditiramo zato, da bi potem, ko služimo denar, odplačevali kredit za izobraževanje. Imamo to zavedanje v Sloveniji? 

Gost:  No, jaz mislim, da pogosto premalo. Enega delovnega mesta niste prej omenila, ki sem ga opravljal res tudi z veliko požrtvovalnostjo. Ko sem bil direktor Centra za izobraževanje in rehabilitacijo v Kamniku. In tam človek spozna, s čim se srečujejo ljudje, ki imajo težave z zdravjem, pa najsi bo to gibalna oviranost ali pa drugi problemi. Takrat tudi spoznaš, kaj pomeni zdravje, javno izobraževanje in javno zdravstvo. Sam sem bil kar precej tudi v sosednjih državah, pa tudi dlje od sosednjih držav, in mislim, da je naše javno šolstvo izredno kvalitetno, da uresničujemo načela enakih možnosti, kot so zapisana v krovni šolski zakonodaji. In zato se mi zdi zelo pomembno poudarjati kakovost javnega sistema, vzgoje in izobraževanja. 

Voditeljica: Včasih se iz tujine čudijo, kako mi vzgojimo toliko športnikov. Ampak verjetno ravno to prednost, dostopnost vseh, ne glede na to, koliko imaš pod palcem. Do šolanja, kjer je potem tudi telesna vzgoja, ki jo gojimo, že ta, recimo karton športni, že leta in leta, in dajemo vsem otrokom enake možnosti. 

Gost: Mislim, da je izredno pomembno že delo v predšolski vzgoji. Mi dosegamo izredno velik procent vključenosti v predšolsko vzgojo in kot to morda na zunaj izgleda zelo enostavno, moram povedati, da imamo enega najkvalitetnejših kurikulov, programov predšolske vzgoje, da če bi ga šli prebrati skozi teorijo, torej, kaj ta kurikularni dokument prinaša. Vsebuje zelo tipična področja, od narave, matematike, jezika in tako dalje. In umetnost je potem to preslikati v izvedbeni kurikul, da so otroci deležni razvoja na posameznih področjih skozi igro, skozi tisto, kar je njihovi razvojni stopnji primerno. 

Voditeljica: Greva na te zakonodajne spremembe, ki ste jih že prenesli na vlado in so bile na vladi sprejete. In sicer je ena od teh razprav, že sami ste omenili, koliko naj država financira javno in koliko zasebno šolstvo. Vi ste rekli, da imamo izjemno dobre javne programe, kar verjetno v tujini, vsaj če gledamo kakšen ameriški film, ni vedno tako pogosto, in v zadnjem času je bilo kar nekaj besed na temo sprememb pri financiranju zasebnih vrtcev. Kaj konkretno je bilo že potrjeno na vladi v zvezi s tem? 

Gost: Morda bi prej povedal, da tisto, kar želimo, da prinese tudi zasebna iniciativa v predšolski prostor, je drugačen način dela. Posebni pedagoški pristopi, posebna pedagoška načela za izvedbo programa predšolske vzgoje in to je tisto, kar popestri. Lahko tudi ponudbo ob javnem. Se mi zdi, da je pa nesprejemljivo, da nekdo vzame javni program, torej javni kurikul, pa začne izvajati, ko izpolni pogoje, svojo dejavnost, potem pa samo pošlje račun na občino. Če govorim poenostavljeno oziroma je občina dolžna z njim skleniti pogodbo. Ta del ne dopolnjuje javne mreže, zato smo se dogovorili, da bodo vstopali v sistem zasebnega v bodoče lahko tisti, ki izvajajo programe po posebnih pedagoških načelih. Tisti, ki izvajajo javni program enak, kot se izvaja v javnih vrtcih, ne. Hkrati je možnost koncesije, kajti v tem primeru zasebniki dopolnjujejo javno mrežo. Seveda, če pa kdo najde tiste, ki bi mu 100 procentov sami plačali, tukaj je pa zasebna pobuda možna. 

Voditeljica: Ali se za obstoječe zasebne vrtce karkoli spremeni? 

Gost: V tem trenutku ne. Dogovorili smo se za prehodno obdobje. V zakonu je določeno tudi obdobje koncesije, za katerega se lahko podeljuje koncesija, to je od 7 do 15 let, torej minimalno 7, maksimalno 15. Do leta 2035 je za obstoječe prehodno obdobje. Takrat pa tisti, ki imajo sedaj javno veljavni program, tega ne bodo mogli več izvajati. 

Voditeljica: Kaj pa skupina v vrtcih? Bo enako število ali ne? 

Gost: V tem trenutku nam podatki kažejo, da bi odprava normativa +2 torej tega fleksibilnega, gibljivega normativa v nekaterih okoljih po Sloveniji povzročila tudi težave in bi nekaj otrok oziroma staršev ne dobilo mesta v vrtcih. Hkrati pa zamejujemo kar frontalno povečevanje normativa +2 na način, da bomo s podzakonskim aktom regulirali, kdaj občina ne more povečati normativa za 2. Glede na to, da je bilo veliko javne diskusije o tem, seveda financerji imajo eno diskusijo, skupnosti, vzgojitelji, sindikati in ostali se zavzemajo za to, da bi bil ta fleksibilni normativ odpravljen. Tukaj je potrebno priznati, da celotna vertikala šolska je znižala normative od leta 2003. To pomeni, da v srednjih šolah iz 32 na 30. Pri osnovnih šolah iz 30 na 28. V vrtcih se je pa ohranil ta, oziroma se je celo vpeljal ta fleksibilni normativ in mislim, da v bodoče bo potrebno o tem tudi prediskutirati in se drugače odločati. 

Voditeljica: Ko sem jaz vpisovala otroka v vrtec, je bilo vse polno. Si težko dobil mesto. Kakšno je stanje danes? Slišim, da so nekateri vrtci kar prazni. 

Gost: V tem letu imamo približno 3000 otrok manj v vrtcih kot v predhodnem letu. 

Voditeljica: Torej sem že stara. 

Gost: Razlike so pa kljub vsemu očitne. Mi imamo sredine, kjer ni prostora v vrtcih, kjer je recimo tudi igralna površina manjša od normativne. O normativnih površinah govorimo tudi zaradi kvalitete izvajanja samega programa. Imamo pa vrtce, kjer se že zmanjšuje število oddelkov, bodisi v prvi bodisi v drugi starostni skupini. 

Voditeljica: Torej se rodnost spreminja v Sloveniji. Kako bi lahko rekli? 

Gost: Mislim, da smo leta 2023 prvič zabeležili manj kot 17.000 rojstev. Če pa vam povem številko izpred 25, 27 let, smo imeli pa tudi številko čez 30.000. 

Voditeljica: Zelo pomembne so tudi spremembe zakona o organizaciji in financiranju vzgoje in izobraževanja, s katerim ta vlada zvišuje sredstva za investicije in razvoj, ki se bodo od prvega januarja 2027 vsako leto povečevale v povprečju za 0,025 odstotne točke, dokler ne doseže ciljne vrednosti BDP, to je 0,5 odstotka. Zakaj je to pomembno? 

Gost: S šolskim prostorom je tako kot z domačim. Vsi si želimo, da je urejen. Vsi si želimo, da je ustrezen, tako z vidika svetlobe, na nek način udobja in priznati je treba, da zmanjševanje sredstev za investicije v šolsko infrastrukturo, kar se je v preteklih letih pogosto dogajalo, povzroča samo večje stroške, ker ni sprotnega vzdrževanja. In mi imamo, če povem za srednješolski prostor, objekte v povprečju stare 58 let. V celotnem šolskem prostoru imamo približno štiri milijone m2 površin in je nujno zagotoviti stabilen vir financiranja bodisi za rekonstrukcije, adaptacije, energetske sanacije, razvoj na drugi strani, tega dela ne smemo zanemariti, hkrati pa tudi za novogradnje, in recimo letos poleti, torej najkasneje 25. julija, tako smo tudi napovedali in se bomo časovnice držali, bo eden največjih razpisov v zgodovini Slovenije za sofinanciranje investicij v osnovnošolski prostor, vrtce in šole s prilagojenim programom, to je v vrednosti 160 milijonov za programsko obdobje do 2029. 

Voditeljica:  Ko sva se pripravljala na pogovor, ste rekli, da je to ogromen dosežek. Zakaj? 

Gost: Ja, mislim, da s tem je tudi v zakonu postavljena neka varovalka, da je financiranje razvoja in financiranje investicij stabilno. To pomeni, da ga je možno načrtovati dolgoročno in da je možno vzdrževati, tako na eni strani standard prostora kot na drugi strani tudi standard programa. S tem pa seveda mislim tudi na kakovost same izvedbe. 

Voditeljica: Novela zakona prinaša spremembe tudi na področju ocenjevanja in uvaja nov predmet obveznega programa. Kaj konkretno se spreminja, če nam lahko poveste. 

Gost: V sedmem razredu v zakonu o osnovni šoli uvajamo tako imenovani nov predmet informatika in digitalne tehnologije. Tukaj mislim, da je toliko razprave, kot je vrst strokovnjakov. Ali je dovolj v sedmem razredu, ali je prezgodaj ali prepozno, ali bi bilo treba ali sploh ne bi bilo treba tega predmeta. Ampak stvari je treba pogledati bolj kompleksno. če želimo imeti to arhitekturo šolskega sistema v resnici v celoti pred seboj. V tem trenutku poteka tudi kurikularna prenova. To pomeni, da se prenavljajo oziroma večina programov je že sprejetih na strokovnem svetu. Praktično vsi učni načrti od prvega razreda osnovne šole do zaključka gimnazije in splošno izobraževalni predmeti v poklicnem in strokovnem izobraževanju. In prvič smo poleg standardov znanja uvedli tudi tako imenovane skupne cilje. Torej gremo v neke vrste kompetenčni model, kjer so tudi digitalne veščine, in se mi zdi, da imamo pri nas že od časov Marije Terezije zelo zakoreninjen disciplinarni sistem, da moramo imeti vse po predmetih. Tukaj je ideja, da učenci dobijo veščine pri različnih predmetih na različen način, tudi z izkustvom. In ta predmet v sedmem razredu potem na nek način dopolni ta del tudi z določenimi znanji. Učni načrt ni pripravljen, to bodo pripravile strokovne komisije. Potem imamo pa v sedmem razredu še tehniko in tehnologijo, kjer je v velikem delu v sam program vključena robotika. In to se mi zdi, da se lahko idealno poveže. 

Voditeljica: Kaj se spreminja pri ocenjevanju? 

Gost: Sam način ocenjevanja smo imeli mi mnogokrat ali pa kar dolgo let zastavljen kot preverjanje in ocenjevanje in se je uporabljal izraz preverjanje in ocenjevanje. V praksi je pa to zgledalo tako po domače. Bom povedal. Danes pišemo preizkuse znanja brez ocenjevanja, jutri bomo pa malo modificirali ali pa čez tri dni. Ta preizkus bo pa za ocenjevanje. Temu ni to namenjeno. Tako da zdaj ta del ločujemo. Torej, preverjanje je način pridobivanja povratne informacije učitelja od učencev, kako dosegajo standarde znanja, in je del procesa. Ocenjevanje je pa zaključek tega procesa, je pa merjenje standardov. In to ocenjevanje ostaja sumativno, torej številčno z ocenami. Preverjanje znanja je pa stvar tudi didaktičnih priporočil in usmeritve, na kakšen način učitelj pridobi povratno informacijo. 

Voditeljica: Letos je bil, mislim, da bil prvič obvezen NPZ, nacionalno preverjanje znanja za tretji, šesti in deveti razred. Kakšni so bili odzivi na to, da je zdaj spet obvezno preverjanje? 

Gost: To je bilo že vrsto let, bile so različne pobude, da bi vendarle v devetem razredu nacionalno preverjanje znanja imelo tudi nek učinek v relaciji do vpisnih pogojev oziroma vpisa na srednjo šolo. In to se je letos prvič zgodilo. Prej je kar nekaj let potekalo poskusno preverjanje znanja v tretjem razredu, zdaj je tudi ta del uzakonjen. Končno evalvacijo bomo imeli jeseni. Lahko pa rečem, da po prvih odzivih je tako v devetem razredu zelo resen ali pa bistveno bolj resen pristop, odgovoren pristop do nacionalnega preverjanja znanja. Ampak rad bi pa tukaj poudaril, da še vedno ne zanemarjamo vloge, zaradi česar je nacionalno preverjanje znanja bilo uvedeno. Gre za to, da lahko evalviramo izobraževanje doseganje standardov znanja v različnih obdobjih tako na nacionalni ravni, v seveda anonimizirani obliki, kot tudi na šolski ravni in ta del umeščamo tudi v sistem ugotavljanja in zagotavljanja kakovosti, kjer se za določeno, ugotavljanje določenega... Doseganja določene kakovosti v šolah uporablja mehanizem samoevalvacije in pri tem tudi različni rezultati preizkusov znanja. 

Voditeljica: Šteje pa tudi potem za vpis na srednjo šolo. 

Gost: Da. Pri tistih šolah, ki imajo omejitev vpisa, se rezultati nacionalnega preverjanja v delu štejejo tudi kot vstopni pogoji v srednjo šolo. 

Voditeljica: Ravno v teh dneh ste namreč vi objavili na ministrstvu, da je 69 srednjih šol omejilo opis, kar je več kot lani. Kakšne interese imajo sploh mladi? Za kaj se odločajo? Je več zanimanja za gimnazije, za poklicne šole, morda naravoslovne? 

Gost: Morda kakšno besedo o gimnazijah najprej. Če bi govorila, ali bi se lahko vsi dijaki vpisali v gimnazijski program brez omejitve vpisa, bi bil odgovor da. Ne more se jih pa toliko, kot bi si jih želelo vpisati v gimnazijski program na točno določeni gimnaziji. Tiste gimnazije, ki so imele preveč kandidatov, to so različni razlogi, zakaj se dijaki oziroma učenci v devetem razredu odločajo za vpis v nekatere šole. Odvisno je tudi od oddaljenosti, od glasu, ki se širi v javnosti, od sorodnikov, ki so prej obiskovali šole in tako naprej. Po drugi strani pa beležimo rahel porast vpisa v programe srednjega poklicnega in srednjega strokovnega izobraževanja in v lanskem letu, pa malo že tudi v predlanskem letu, tudi v programe nižjega poklicnega izobraževanja. Ob tem, da imajo nekateri poklici relativno nizek vpis, recimo par kandidatov za dimnikarja, par kandidatov za zidarja, govorimo o podatkih na nivoju Slovenije, pa recimo veliko kandidatov za frizerja. Povečuje se vpis na gastronomiji, malo verjetno odvisno tudi od trendov v širšem družbenem prostoru. Kar veliko mladih bi bilo tudi chefov v kuhinji, ker gledajo ... 

Voditeljica: Televizija še vedno deluje. 

Gost: Gledajo medije. 

Voditeljica: Pa nova družbena omrežja, kjer je poklic frizerja zelo pomemben. Recimo. 

Gost: Za frizerja je zanimivo, da je sam poklic dobil vertikalo. vertikalo. Prej je bila to samo srednja poklicna šola. Po drugi strani mediji delajo svoje. Saj veste, da na družabnih omrežjih je usmeritev v idealne podobe.

Voditeljica: Vizualne predvsem, kajne? 

Gost: In pa ta vizualni del, kjer pridejo do izraza potem morda bolj tudi ti poklici. Ampak to niso kakšni znanstveni rezultati, o čemer zdaj govorim. To so bolj ugibanja. 

Voditeljica: Tudi jaz sklepam tako, pa tudi nimam podkrepljeno s podatki. Še ena pomembna tema. Mobiteli v šole. Ja ali ne? 

Gost: Ja, ampak pod določenimi pogoji. To smo regulirali v zakonu o osnovni šoli. Tu bi želel povedati, da marsikatera šola je imela te stvari že sedaj dobro urejene. Nam se je zdelo kljub različnim mnenjem pomembno, da tudi skozi sistemsko zakonodajo damo jasen signal in regulativo, kaj je tisto, kar je dopustno v zvezi z elektronskimi napravami v šoli in kaj ni dovoljeno. To pomeni, da gre za omejitev rabe takrat, ko je tak pripomoček telefon, če govorimo o telefonu. Pripomoček v zdravstvene namene je absolutno dovoljen. Torej iz zdravstvenih razlogov. Sicer pa takrat, kadar se uporablja za namen vzgojno izobraževalnega procesa. 

Voditeljica: In še en drug pereč problem, ki se je pojavil. V nasilju, ki je bil na šolah v sosednji, ni sosednja, ampak v bližnji državi Srbiji. Pregledovanje torb. Da ali ne? 

Gost: Ja, mehanizem v zakonu je vzpostavljen. Tukaj mislim, da je treba kljub vsemu spoštovati pravico in dostojanstvo posameznika, zato so stvari natančno zregulirane. Po kakšnem, kdo oziroma na kak način lahko pregleda torbo. Natančneje ... Ali pa opravi osebni pregled. Natančneje bodo to skladno z zakonom določile šole v šolskem redu. 

Voditeljica: Novosti, ki smo jih zasledili, pa jih nismo veseli, so grožnje na šolah. Kako se s tem soočate? Tudi tukaj je bilo v tej vladi veliko novosti. 

Gost: Ja, sam moram povedati, da smo se ogromno o tem pogovarjali in s šolami in z zavodom za šolstvo, ki na strokovnem delu vodi številne aktivnosti v zvezi z varnim in spodbudnim učnim okoljem. Gre za en širši sklop zagotavljanja varnega okolja. Če pa govoriva o grožnjah, bi pa predvsem omenil protokol. Protokol, ki ga imajo šole, in protokol, ki smo ga tudi podpisali z Ministrstvom za notranje zadeve oziroma policijo. Postavili smo tudi sistem obveščanja, torej med šolami oziroma šole, ministrstvo, policija, zato da bi v takih primerih zagotovili čim večjo varnost, da v primeru, da bi bilo to potrebno, vemo, kako na šolah ukrepati oziroma tudi ravnatelji vedo, kako evakuirati šolo v najhujših primerih. Sicer pa te posamezne grožnje, ki se tudi pojavljajo, obravnava policija seveda v sodelovanju s šolo v začetku postopka. Kar zadeva preprečevanje nasilja, pa še vedno prisegamo na preventivno delovanje v šolskem prostoru. 

Voditeljica: Ena taka bolj pereča tema je tudi medvrstniško nasilje. Verjetno že od nekdaj obstaja. K sreči pa zdaj več govorimo o tem. Kakšni so izzivi na tem področju? Vemo, da je tudi recimo javni RTV imel kampanjo Odpikajmo nasilje in se je temu delu posvečal. Je to primerno, da se več govori, da spodbujamo pogovore, povemo, kaj je prav in kaj ne? 

Gost: Se mi zdi, da te akcije morajo biti dobro premišljene in usmerjene. Vrste nasilja se nam v zadnjih letih tudi spreminjajo. Zdaj se v veliki meri pojavlja nasilje preko družabnih omrežij, kar pomeni, da je povzročitelj nasilja lahko tudi v coni udobja. To je popolnoma drugačna situacija, ker lahko to počne iz domačega okolja. Da je tovrstno nasilje bistveno težje odkrivati in zato se nam zdi zelo pomembno to za ustvarjanje zaupanja v šolskem prostoru, zaupanja med učenci in učitelji. Vloga svetovalne službe, ki se je v zadnjih letih okrepila, stik svetovalne službe z učenci in pa predvsem tisto, torej, kar je nujno potrebno. Ustrezen stik šole s starši. Namreč sam ne morem pristajati na tezo, da v šoli za delovanje otroka starši niso popolnoma nič odgovorni. Ni res. Jaz sem prepričan, da se glavnina vrednot oblikuje v družinskem okolju, da je vzgoja odgovorno dejanje. Da je pa zagotavljanje varnosti in upoštevanja navodil in reda, če želimo živeti v skupnosti, stvar na eni strani šole in pa odnosov, ki jih zaposleni v šoli ustvarjajo. Na drugi strani pa tudi staršev. 

Voditeljica: Torej bo ta predmet o digitalnem znanju zelo koristen, da se bo tudi skozi to naučili, kaj vse prinašajo družbena omrežja? 

Gost: Tudi. Ampak na drugi strani pa krepimo to vzgojno vlogo šole. Zato tudi na nek način umik vzgojnega načrta kot nekega akta, za katerega smo ugotovili, da se v večini primerov samo kopira iz leta v leto, ampak da so te aktivnosti zagotavljanja varnega okolja in vzgojnega delovanja šole umeščene v letni delovni načrt. Da o tem razpravlja svet šole, svet staršev, učiteljski zbor in takrat verjamem, da lahko dosežemo uspehe. 

Voditeljica: Eden večjih izzivov je še pomanjkanje učiteljev in njihova obremenjenost. Ne bova govorila o težavah, ampak o izzivih. Ob prenovi plačnega sistema se seveda tudi na te kadre ni pozabilo. Mi imamo kampanjo Javni sektor za vse in v njej sta vzgojiteljica in učiteljica spregovorili, kaj jima pomeni poklic, in predlagam, da si skupaj pogledava ta dva videa. 

Gost: Prosim. 

[začetek videa]

Kindra so me klicali, ko sem bila majhna, ker sem vse otroke čuvala. Kindra. Moje ime je Ines Godec Žavcer in po poklicu sem vzgojiteljica predšolskih otrok. Moj dan se začne zjutraj, ko prihajajo otroci v vrtec. Nadaljujemo ga z dnevno rutino, z zajtrkom, z gibanjem, s strukturiranimi dejavnostmi. Primarna dejavnost otrok pa je še vedno igra. Vrtec pa mora biti tudi priložnost, da si pridobivajo socialne veščine in socialne stike. Pri delu me najbolj motivira napredek otrok. Veliko staršev ne bi imelo možnosti hoditi v službo. Čutim, da je moje delo cenjeno. Trenutek, da sem na pravem mestu, poznam že celo življenje. Če rad delaš z otroki in če si ustvarjalen, je delo vzgojiteljice pravi poklic. Prednost našega poklica je urejen delovni čas. Prednost so odnosi, ki jih imaš z otrokom. Vzgojiteljica niso samo v srcu. Ta poklic nosiš vedno s sabo. 

Svet brez učiteljev bi bil videti kot knjiga brez besed. Sem Mojca, učiteljica na osnovni šoli Breg. Ko vstopiš v razred, kjer te čaka polno mladih upov, ki so polni pričakovanj, vprašanj, sanj. Takrat se popolnoma predam trenutku. Najprej želim ustvariti varno učno okolje. V službi izobraževanja pomeni, da si delček, ki pomaga ustvarjati otrokovo prihodnost. Da sem postala učiteljica, nekako se mi zdi, da mi je bilo to položeno v zibko. Učitelji so tihi arhitekti prihodnosti. 

[konec videa]

Voditeljica: Okej, minister. Vi ste želeli biti zidar, zdaj sva pa slišala, da učitelji so tihi arhitekti prihodnosti. Torej ste bili tihi arhitekt prihodnosti, ko ste bili učitelj? Se strinjate s to izjavo? 

Gost: Ja, meni se zdi. Meni se zdi ta izjava, torej ima globok pomen. Jaz jo vidim kot neko sporočilo, da gre vendarle za neko vzgojno dejavnost, vrednote, ki se prenašajo tudi z zgledom posameznika. Zato je ... In učitelj ima en privilegij. Ves čas je v interakciji z mladimi. Ima sicer eno težavo, ker je starostna razlika med vsakim letom njegovega službovanja in generacijo, ki prihaja v šolo, eno leto večja. Ampak vendarle, če svoje delo opravlja profesionalno in če mu težave, ki se pojavijo v razredu, ne predstavljajo problema, ampak izziv, potem mislim, da lahko to delo z zadovoljstvom opravlja. Sam sem učil 26 let v osnovni šoli in gimnaziji in mi je še danes prav prijetno, ko me srečajo nekateri dijaki, ki so že, ali pa učenci, ki imajo v srednješolskih vrstah že svoje otroke, pa obudimo kakšno dobro izkušnjo iz šolskega prostora. 

Voditeljica: Kako se soočamo s tem izzivom pomanjkanja kadrov in nezanimanja za ta poklic? 

Gost: Torej, na eni strani imamo nekaj sistemske vzvode. Mislim, da ... Jaz ne bi govoril tako o nezanimanju za ta poklic, ker številke kažejo, da vpisi na fakultete pedagoških smeri, razen nekaterih deficitarnih. Matematika, fizika in tako naprej. Niso tako slabi, ampak se mi zdi, da v preteklih letih ali pa kar desetletje že lahko pogledamo, nismo temu posvečali dovolj velike skrbi. Namreč učiteljski poklic je tisti, za katerega bazen je samo v Sloveniji. Ni ne moremo iti v tujino po učitelje, tako kot se danes dogaja v realnem sektorju. 

Voditeljica: Jezikovna prepreka, ne? 

Gost: Ja. Potem smo imeli v preteklosti zelo omejeno pripravništvo in tisti, ki ne začne svoje kariere v pedagoškem poklicu, kjer opravi tudi pripravništvo in strokovni izpit, se zelo redko vrne v šolski prostor. Sama plačna reforma je zlasti učiteljem na začetku kariere, mislim, da kar popravila izhodišče. Potem imamo pa ukrepe, ki smo jih v sistemski zakonodaji tudi naslovili. Eno je, da zmanjšamo ta primanjkljaj, ki ga imamo zdaj v šolah, od možnosti zaposlovanja upokojencev in pa v določenem deležu študentskega dela, možnosti zaposlovanja za nedoločen čas brez izpolnjenih vseh pogojev, ampak pogoj, da se v treh letih, da v treh letih posameznik doseže ustrezno kvalifikacijo. Tu mislim na pedagoško, andragoško izobrazbo, strokovni izpit in tako naprej. In drugo. Sofinanciranje teh oblik izpopolnjevanj. Potem Imamo mehanizem štipendiranja, ki smo ga lansko leto povečali za trikrat. Torej, če se je prvo leto razdelilo, mislim, da 46 štipendij, smo jih lansko leto 300. Mi računamo, da je tudi lokalno okolje tisto, ki se zaveda pomembnosti učiteljskega poklica in dela v javnem sektorju, da bodo mladi učitelji in mlade družine deležne tudi neprofitnih stanovanj. To se mi zdi, da so mehanizmi, ki nam v nekem srednjeročnem obdobju nas lahko pripeljejo do zadostnega števila kadrov. Ob zavedanju, da se bo do leta 2033 skoraj tretjina učiteljev upokojila. 

Voditeljica: Če se ne motim, je tudi ta prenova plačnega sistema omogočila, da če prihajaš iz zasebnega sektorja, ne greš na začetniško plačo učitelja, da bi lahko tudi na ta način privabili. 

Gost: To je tudi eden od mehanizmov, torej tudi kadrovski pogoj. Kadrovske pogoje smo pregledali. Po mnogih letih pogovarjanja in dogovarjanja ima, recimo, če dam za primer prevajalec iz nemščine ali prevajalec v angleščino, če opravi pedagoško andragoško izobrazbo in strokovni izpit, lahko tudi doseže izpolnjevanje pogojev za poučevanje v osnovni šoli ali srednji šoli. In to je tudi en del. Iz več delčkov poskušamo sestaviti neko stabilno kadrovsko strukturo v šolskem prostoru. 

Voditeljica: Minister, kakšni so vaši načrti za prihodnost? Imate radijski glas. Na radiu verjetno ne boste končali? 

Gost: Ne, napovedovalec verjetno ne bom. Moram povedati, da smo se znotraj ministrstva resnično intenzivno lotili urejanja sistema. Mislim, da spremembe, ki smo jih pripravili, so bile ustrezne in so upravičene in mislim, da so relativno dobro sprejete. Moram reči, da ekipa na ministrstvu izredno aktivno dela. Do konca mandata imamo še nekaj izzivov na podzakonskih aktih. Vseh pet zakonov imamo v državnem zboru. Tisto, kar pa mislim, da je nujno potrebno še pripraviti za proceduro do jesenskega časa, je pa zakon o usmerjanju otrok s posebnimi potrebami. Tukaj mislim, da imamo v Sloveniji še prostor za nadgradnjo inkluzivnega izobraževanja in mislim, da aktivnosti, ki so potrebne za pomoč in podporo otrokom zaradi primanjkljajev na posameznih področjih, so potrebne in tukaj smo tudi z osveščenostjo še prenizko. 

Voditeljica: Torej izzivov ne zmanjka. Kaj bi zaželeli učiteljem in učencem ob zaključku šolskega leta? 

Gost: Mislim, da je lepo, če je vsak zaključek prijeten. Do prijetnega zaključka se pride včasih tudi z večjimi napori in junij je tak mesec, ko je šolski prostor omiljeno rečeno napolnjen tudi s čustvi, mnogokrat, prevečkrat tudi z različnimi stresnimi situacijami. Pa vendarle mislim, da je to možno premagati. Vsem želim uspešen zaključek šolskega leta, učiteljem lep dopust in pa uspešno pripravo na novo šolsko leto. 

Voditeljica: Hvala, minister, da ste si vzeli čas. Naj čim prej zazvoni šolski zvonec in oznani počitnice. 

Gost: Hvala lepa.

Voditeljica: Hvala tudi vam, da ste bili z nami. Spremljajte naš podkast na vseh kanalih in nasvidenje do prihodnjič.

[ENGLISH VERSION]

GovSi, the Government's Podcast.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Hello to our viewers and listeners. Welcome to Episode 24 of the GovSi Podcast, prepared by the government's Communication Office. I'm Petra Bezjak Cirman. The school year is ending and students can't wait for their summer break from the classroom to start. On this podcast, which you can follow on all platforms, we're talking with Education Minister Dr. Vinko Logaj. Hello.

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

Hello.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Minister, you were the logical choice to be our guest because you introduced several legislative changes to the government in the past year. We'll discuss the key ones introduced by amendments and how the ministry is tackling challenges such as a lack of personnel, school violence, and digitalization, as well as the long-term vision for education. But let's begin with you. How do you remember your school days? Was there a teacher who left a mark?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

I remember my first day of school very vividly. I don't know if I should say when that was. It was in 1967, September 5. Back then, the school year began on September 5, not September 1. I felt that I had entered a huge building with huge rooms. There was no senior kindergarten at the time, so I was in such a place for the first time and it was ingrained in my memory. When I now look at the building, it looks average-sized to me. And we still had class on Saturdays.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

So the school system has changed a lot since then?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

Very much so.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

You have extensive experience with the school system. Your career took you from being a teacher, assistant headmaster, to headmaster. You helped set up the Litija High School. You headed the Directorate for Secondary and Higher Education, and the National Education Institute. You ended up as minister. Why did you decide to pursue a career in education?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

I've got to admit that when I was deciding to enroll in high school, I wanted to become a mason. However, the school counseling office had already been set up, and the counselors advised me to pursue a different profession. I had no clear career preference, so they recommended that I enroll in a preparatory high school. After high school, I decided to study physics with a teaching emphasis. While still a student, I was asked to fill in for a colleague that had taught physics in an elementary school. As is still the case today, there was a great lack of physics and math teachers. I felt that was probably the right choice for me. I was intrigued by all the challenges faced by teachers. I'm not talking about problems. We do that too much these days. When you see teaching as a calling and you do your job professionally, then all your obstacles become opportunities for new, different approaches and greater work efficiency.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

You were educated in public schools and kept working in the public education system. Are we sufficiently aware of the importance of public education in Slovenia? People abroad have to save to afford their child's education. Slovenians don't have those problems. Even when we graduate from college, we don't take out loans and then pay back our debt when we get a job. Do we realize this?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

Not enough in many cases. You didn't mention one of my jobs, which required a great deal of self-sacrifice. That was my role as the head of the Center for Education and Rehabilitation in Kamnik. That's where you encounter what people with health problems face, whether they have a disability that affects mobility or something else. That's when you realize the importance of good health, public education, and public healthcare. I spent time in neighboring countries and further afield. I feel that our public education system is very good. We're realizing the principle of equal opportunity as defined in education legislation, so I feel that we need to emphasize the quality of the public education system.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Foreigners sometimes wonder how we manage to produce so many athletes, but this accessibility regardless of income is probably an advantage, as is schooling, which includes physical education and where a sports fitness database has been in place for years. We give all children equal opportunities.

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

Our work at the preschool level is crucial. We have a large enrollment in preschool education. This may seem simple from the outside, and we do have one of the best preschool curricula. If we were to read it from a theoretical perspective, we'd see that this curriculum document covers run-of-the-mill fields, from natural science and math to language, and so on. The hard part is to transfer all this into the practical part of the curriculum to enable child development in specific fields through playtime and other development level-appropriate activities.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Let's move on to the legislative changes that you've introduced to the government. One of the issues is the amount to which the state should fund public and private education. You said our public programs are very good, which isn't all that common abroad judging from American movies. Recently, there has been much debate about changes to the funding of private kindergartens. What specifically has the government confirmed regarding this?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

I'd like to point out that what we would like to see from private initiative in preschool education are a different organization of work, special teaching approaches, and novel pedagogical principles when carrying out the preschool program. This can expand educational options other than public ones. However, I consider it unacceptable for someone to take a public curriculum and then begin to carry out its activity when meeting all the criteria, while just sending a check to the municipality or making the municipality sign a contract with the provider. That approach doesn't complement the public education system, so we agreed that new entrants to the private education system will be limited to those carrying out programs according to special pedagogic principles. Those who have the same curriculum as the one carried out in public kindergartens won't be eligible. We also have public concessions as an option. In this case, private providers complement the public system. Of course, if someone finds clients who could cover the entire tuition, then private initiative is possible.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Does anything change for existing private kindergartens?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

Not at this moment. We've agreed on a transition period. The law also defines the duration of concessions. This ranges between seven and 15 years. The transition period is in effect for existing kindergartens until 2035. That's when those with a public curriculum will no longer be able to carry it out.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

What about groups in kindergartens? Will their number remain unchanged?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

Data shows that getting rid of the flexible "Plus Two" norms could cause problems in some parts of Slovenia and leave some children without enrollment in kindergarten. At the same time, we are limiting the blanket application of the +2 standard by regulating, through secondary legislation, when a municipality may not increase the group size by two. There has been a lot of public debate regarding this. Naturally, funders, which are local communities, are having a separate debate. Teachers, unions and others are advocating for abolishing the flexible standard. We have to acknowledge that the entire education sector has reduced those standards since 2003. In secondary schools it went from 32 to 30, in primary schools from 30 to 28, while this flexible standard was introduced in nursery schools. Going forward, this matter will need to be discussed and reconsidered.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

When I was enrolling my child in nursery, they were full, it was hard to secure a place. What is the situation today? I hear some nursery schools are quite empty.

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

This year, there are about 3,000 fewer children enrolled in nursery schools compared to last year. Nonetheless, the differences between regions are quite marked. There are areas where there is no space in nursery schools. In some cases, the play area is smaller than the standard. These minimum area requirements are important for ensuring the quality of programme delivery. There are also nursery schools where the number of groups is already decreasing, either in the younger or the older age group.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

So the birth rate is changing in Slovenia?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

I believe that in 2023, we recorded fewer than 17,000 births for the first time. To give you a comparison, 25 or 27 years ago, the figure exceeded 30,000.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Amendments to the Organisation and Financing of Education Act are also very important, as the government is increasing funding for investment and development, which, as of 1 January 2027, will rise annually by an average of 0.025 percentage points until the target share of GDP, that is, 0.5 per cent, is reached. Why is this significant?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

School facilities are much like those at home, we all want them to be well-maintained. We all want them to be suitable, in terms of natural light and, in a way, comfort as well. We must also acknowledge that the reduction in investment in school infrastructure, which has occurred frequently in recent years, only leads to higher costs in the long run, due to a lack of regular maintenance. And in the case of secondary education, the average age of school buildings is currently 58 years. The entire education system comprises approximately 4 million square metres of space, and it is essential to ensure a stable source of funding, be it for reconstruction, refurbishment, energy-efficiency upgrades, or indeed development, which must not be neglected, as well as for new construction. For instance, this summer, by 25 July at the latest, as previously announced and in line with the planned timeline, we will be launching one of the largest public calls in the history of Slovenia for co-financing investment in primary education infrastructure, nursery schools, and schools with adapted programmes, amounting to 160 million euros for the programming period up to 2029.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

You said earlier that this is a huge achievement. Why?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

I believe that this Act also establishes a safeguard to ensure that funding for development and investment remains stable. This means that it can be planned over the long term and that it is possible to maintain the standard of physical facilities on the one hand, and, on the other, the standard of the educational programme. This also relates to the quality of the delivery.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

The amendment also introduces changes to assessment and establishes a new compulsory subject. What exactly is changing?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

In Year 7, we are introducing a new subject under the Primary School Act, Informatics and Digital Technologies. There are as many opinions on this matter as there are experts. Is Year 7 too early or is it too late? Should the subject be introduced at all? However, we need to look at things more holistically if we want to fully grasp the overall architecture of the school system. A curricular reform is also currently underway. In fact, most programmes have already been adopted by the Council of Experts. This includes practically all syllabuses from Year 1 through to the end of general upper secondary education, as well as general education subjects within vocational and technical education. For the first time, in addition to knowledge standards, we have also introduced so-called common objectives. We are moving towards a form of competence-based model, which also includes digital skills. It seems to me that since the time of Maria Theresa, we have been firmly rooted in a highly structured subject-based system. The idea here is to enable pupils to acquire skills across different subjects in various ways, including through experiential learning. The new subject in Year 7 complements this aspect by also providing specific knowledge. The syllabus has not yet been prepared, it will be developed by expert committees. Year 7 already has the subject Technology and Engineering, which includes, to a large extent, robotics as part of its programme, and I believe they can integrate ideally.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

What is changing in the area of assessment?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

For many years, the approach to assessment has combined assessment and evaluation, and the term "assessment and evaluation" has been used accordingly. Let me explain how this looked in practice. Today, pupils would sit a test that was not graded, a few days later, a slightly modified version of the same test would be used for grading purposes. But that is not its intended function. We are now making a clearer distinction between the two. Assessment refers to how a teacher obtains feedback from pupils on how well they are meeting learning standards and is part of the learning process. Evaluation is the concluding stage of this process, it is the measurement of standards. Evaluation will remain summative, that is, expressed in numerical grades. The assessment of knowledge, however, is guided by didactic recommendations and pedagogical guidance regarding how the teacher gathers meaningful feedback.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

This year, national standardised testing became compulsory for Years 3, 6, and 9. What was the response to the reintroduction of compulsory testing?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

For many years, there have been various proposals that national standardised testing at the end of Year 9 should have a more tangible impact in relation to admission criteria for secondary school. This year, for the first time, that principle was implemented. In previous years, trial testing had been conducted in Year 3, now, this element has also been written into law. The final evaluation of this will take place in the autumn. However, based on the initial feedback, I can say that in Year 9, pupils have approached national testing with a notably more serious and responsible attitude. I want to stress we did not forget the main reason why tests were even introduced. With these tests, we can evaluate our education and whether it reaches our standards on national level, these data are anonymous, and on school level. This part is included in the quality control system where school self-evaluation is used to establish quality and test results are used for it.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

And it counts for enrolling in a high school.

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

Yes, in schools where too many students apply, these results are one of the conditions for being accepted.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Your Ministry just published the information that 69 schools has limits for enrolling which is more than last year. What do young people decide for? Is there more interest in gymnasiums or vocational schools?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

First, I want to talk about gymnasiums. If everyone could be accepted at gymnasiums without needing points, the answer would be yes, but not everyone can be accepted at a certain gymnasium. Some gymnasiums have too many candidates. There are different reasons why students in the 9th grade enrol at a certain gymnasium. It depends on the distance, the gymnasium's reputation, relatives that were attending this school before. On the other hand, there has been an increase in enrolling for vocational programmes. Two years ago and last year, there were more students enrolling in short vocational education. There is not much interest for some professions, for example, only a couple of candidates for chimney sweeps, only a couple of candidates for masons. These are the data for Slovenia. There are a lot of candidates for hairdressers and there is more interest in gastronomy, This also depends on trends in our society. A lot of young people want to be chefs because they watch TV.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

It still works. And on social media, hairdressers are very prominent.

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

This profession has a possibility of progressing as well. Before, it was just a vocational school. The media play an important role as well. You know social media only focus on ideal look.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Especially visually.

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

On the visual part and then these professions come into focus. But these are not scientific studies, I am just guessing.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

I agree with you, but I do not have any data either. Another important issue. Phones at schools. Yes or no?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

Yes, but under certain conditions. We regulated it in the Primary School Act. Many schools have already regulated it very well. We thought it was important to have a clear regulation in the legislation as well on what is allowed regarding electronic devices at schools and what is not allowed. We limited the use of phones, if we are talking about phones. Of course, they are allowed for medical reasons and when they are used as a part of educational process.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Another big issue is violence we saw at school in Serbia. Should we check students' bags?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

There is a possibility in the Act. I think we have to respect the rights of an individual which is why it is regulated who can check the bag and how or do a physical search. Schools will define it in detail in their regulations.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

We are also not happy about threats at schools. How are you dealing with this?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

I have to say we have been talking about it a lot with schools and the National Education Institute that is implementing many activities to provide a safe and stimulative learning environment. This is regarding safety. If we talk about threats, I want to mention school protocols and the protocol we signed with the Ministry of the Interior and the Police. We established a notification system among schools and with the Ministry and Police to ensure safety in such cases, so that schools know how to react if it will be necessary. Headteachers know how to evacuate their school in worst-case scenario. Individual threats we have had are being investigated by the police. At the beginning, they work with schools. To prevent violence, we still bet on preventive measures at schools.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Peer violence is a huge issue as well. It has always been there, but now we are talking about it. What are the challenges? The public RTV had a campaign on this, they focused on this issue. Is it okay to talk more about it, to say what is right and what is wrong?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

These campaigns need to be well thought through. Types of violence have been changing over the past years. Now, the majority of violence is present on social media. This means the perpetrator is in their comfort zone. This is a different situation because they can do it from home. This type of violence is harder to detect and this is why trust in schools is important, trust between students and teachers. Social workers have gotten a more important role. They need to have contact with students, but the most important is the communication between schools and parents. I cannot agree that parents are not responsible for how their child behaves at school. This is not true. I believe that most values are formed in the family environment, that education is a responsible act. That, if we want to live in a community, ensuring safety and respect for instructions and order is a matter, on the one hand, of the school and of the relationships that the staff in the school create, but on the other hand, also of the parents.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

So this course on digital literacy will be very useful, so that through it they will also learn what social networks bring with them?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

Yes, but on the other hand, we're reinforcing this educational role of the school. That's why, in a way, we're also withdrawing the educational plan as an act, which we have found that in most cases is just copied from one year to the next. So that these activities of ensuring a safe environment and the educational activities of the school are placed in the annual work plan. That this is discussed by the school council, the parents' council, the teachers' assembly, and then I believe that we can achieve success.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

One of the major challenges is the shortage of teachers and their workload. These are not problems, but challenges. The salary system reform hasn't forgotten about these staff either. We have the Public Sector for All campaign, and in it, two teachers talk about what the profession means to them, I suggest that we watch these two videos together.

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

Please.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

They used to call me Kindra, because I babysat all the children. My name is Ines Godec Žavcer, I'm a preschool teacher. My day starts in the morning when the children arrive at kindergarten. We continue with a daily routine, with breakfast, with exercise, with structured activities. The children's primary activity is still play. Kindergarten should also be an opportunity for them to acquire social skills and contacts. I'm motivated by the children's progress. Many parents wouldn't have the opportunity to go to work. I feel that my work is valued. I have known my whole life that I'm in the right place. If you love working with children, if you're creative, being a teacher is the right profession. The advantage of our profession is the regular working hours, the relationship you have with the children. You're not only a teacher at heart, you always carry this profession with you.

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

A world without teachers would look like a book without words. I'm Mojca, a teacher at Breg Primary School. When I enter a classroom full of young hopefuls, full of expectations, questions, dreams, I surrender completely to the moment. First of all, I want to create a safe learning environment. Working in education means being a part of helping to create a child's future. I think I was born to be a teacher. Teachers are the silent architects of the future.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Okay, Minister. You wanted to be a bricklayer, but now we heard that teachers are the silent architects of the future. So you were the silent architect of the future when you were a teacher. Do you agree with that statement?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

Yes, I think that statement has a deep meaning. I see it as a message that it is, after all, an educational activity. Values that are also transmitted by the example of the individual. That's why it is ... In a way, teachers have a privilege of interacting with young people all the time. But they also have a problem, because each year the age difference between them and the generation coming into the school is a year more. But, nevertheless, if they take their job seriously, and if the problems that arise in the classroom are not a problem for them, but a challenge, then I think they can do the job with satisfaction. I myself taught for 26 years in primary and secondary school, and it's still very pleasant for me when I meet some pupils who already have children of their own in secondary school, and we recall some good experiences from the classroom.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

How do we face this challenge of staff shortages and lack of interest in the profession?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

On the one hand, we have some systemic levers. I think I wouldn't call it so much a lack of interest in the profession, because, after all, the figures show that the enrolments in the faculties of education, except for some deficit faculties, mathematics, physics and so on, are not so bad. But it seems to me that we have not paid enough attention to this in recent years, or for a decade. Because the pool for the teaching profession is only Slovenia. We can't look for teachers abroad, as is happening today in the real sector.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

There's a language barrier.

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

Then, in the past, we had very limited traineeships, and those who don't start their career in the teaching profession, where they also do an apprenticeship and a professional examination, very rarely return to the classroom. The pay reform has improved the starting point, especially for teachers at the beginning of their careers. Then we have the measures in the systemic legislation. One is to reduce this deficit that we now have in schools. From the possibility of employing pensioners and, in a certain proportion, students to the possibility of permanent employment without yet meeting all the conditions, provided that the individual achieves the appropriate qualification within three years. A pedagogical and andragogical qualification, a professional examination and so on. So the co-financing of these forms of advanced training. Then we have the scholarship mechanism, which we increased threefold last year. So if the first year, I think, 46 scholarships were distributed, last year we had 300. We're counting on the local environment also being aware of the importance of the teaching profession and of working in the public sector, so that young teachers and young families will also benefit from non-profit housing. These are the mechanisms that can lead to a certain sufficiency of staff in the medium term. Bearing in mind that by 2033, almost a third of teachers will retire.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

If I'm not mistaken, this reform of the pay system also means that if you come from the private sector, you don't get a teacher's starting salary. You can attract people in this way.

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

That's also one of the mechanisms, we have looked at the staffing conditions. After many years of discussion and negotiation ... For example, a translator from German or a translator into English with a pedagogical and andragogical qualification and a professional examination can be eligible for teaching in primary or secondary school. That's one part of it. We're trying to put together a stable staffing structure from several pieces.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Minister, what are your plans for the future? You have a voice for the radio. You probably won't work there.

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

I probably won't be a radio announcer. I have to say that we've really worked hard within the ministry to sort out the system. I think the changes that we've made have been appropriate and justified, and I think they have been relatively well received. I have to say that the team at the Ministry is working extremely actively. We still have to work on the regulations before the end of term. All five draft acts are in the National Assembly. What I think we urgently need to prepare by autumn is the act on the guidance of children with special needs. I think that there's still room for upgrading inclusive education in Slovenia, and I think that the activities that are needed to help and support children who have deficits in particular areas are needed and the awareness is too low.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

There is no shortage of challenges. What would you like to wish teachers and pupils at the end of the school year?

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

I think it's nice if every end is enjoyable. To achieve this, we sometimes need to put in more effort. And June is such a month when school is, to put it mildly, often filled with emotions. Too often with different stressful situations. And yet I think it's possible to overcome this. I wish everyone a successful end to the school year, the teachers a good holiday and a successful preparation for the new school year.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Thank you for taking the time. May the school bell ring as soon as possible to announce the holidays.

Guest Dr. Vinko Logaj:

Thank you very much.

Host Petra Bezjak Cirman:

Thank you for being with us. Follow our podcast on all channels and see you next time.